# Electric Vehicle critics **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254 "2019-10-24T20:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1121 "2019-12-10T23:29:57Z")
I’ll just leave this here… [Harbour Air testing world's first all-electric commercial seaplane | CTV News](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/harbour-air-testing-world-s-first-all-electric-commercial-seaplane-1.4723390) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1122 "2019-12-10T23:35:12Z")
Yes yes, but what if the airline forgets to plug the plane in? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1123 "2019-12-11T01:07:01Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Yes yes, but what if the airline forgets to plug the plane in? Great. So now I have to completely re-wire all my airplane hangars? What if I want to fly to Antarctica and then immediately leave for Norway? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1124 "2019-12-11T01:16:25Z")
Sure, an electric plane can go 100 miles, but what about a 200 mile trip? When I fly 500 miles to visit my friend, I need a plane that can go 1000 miles. And since there are no electric planes that can go 2000 miles, they’re completely useless until they can go 5000 miles on a charge. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1125 "2019-12-11T02:05:39Z")
That airplane can’t handle the vacuum of space. Martians can’t possibly afford it. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1126 "2019-12-11T04:29:56Z")
We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car. Can anyone tell me, how good are the air conditioners and heaters? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1127 "2019-12-11T04:55:12Z")
In terms of cooling and heating power, no different than any other modern car. Two differences in operation, though. I’m pretty sure every EV will allow you to turn on the AC or heat via app before you enter the car. So if you can think ahead by five minutes - I know I’m going to get comments that this is literally impossible for so many people - you never again need to deal with a car interior that’s too hot or cold. Like today was chilly, so as I walked out of my office, I turned on the heat and seat warmer so when a got in the car a couple minutes later, it was nice and warm. The one drawback is that using the heater decreases your range. The AC has much less effect. Cue the “you live your life around the car” conplaints. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1128 "2019-12-11T05:40:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > That airplane can’t handle the vacuum of space. Martians can’t possibly afford it. Electric planes cannot handle rough air \* . . . . . . . . . . . . \*when they are made out of tissue paper. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1129 "2019-12-11T11:44:40Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > This ‘outlet within five minutes of the campsite’ is nothing like the camping that I do privately (sometimes I’m 30 minutes or more from the car without even hiking!) How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram? > [@Pantastic](#): > > If I have to arrive during a cookout, get other people to move their vehicles so I can park close to the house, run 100’ or more of cable across an area where people will be walking while carrying stuff, and then take all of that down again when I leave, that’s not hardly the negligible ‘5 seconds of labor there’s no way you’d ever forget or put off’ that people claim charging is. Pretty much every party I’ve been to people carry stuff in when they arrive & carry stuff out when they leave. Of course if they’re leaving & yours is the last car in the driveway, you’d need to unplug & pull out in order for them to pull out & drive away. > [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Lest we not forget, [post #1089](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22015423&postcount=1089) was you taking offense to a simple statement that a hypothetical 5 minute walk was “not totally disrupting your weekend”, and yet somehow you’ve declared that anyone that doesn’t like wasting 30+ minutes 4 times a year for an oil change has a “unusual and extreme aversion.” Got it. Oil change recommendations haven’t been at 3000 miles for some time. Most new cars are 5000 at a minimum & many are between 7500 & 10,000 miles; therefore, someone needing 4 oil changes a year is driving between 20,000 & 40,000 miles. An EV probably won’t work for those people given how far above the standard deviation of annual miles they drive means they probably have an almost 200 mile commute every day. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1130 "2019-12-11T17:54:21Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram? IIRC at Oswald West State Park in Oregon, parking uphill from the campsites is linked by paved switchback trails, and large wheelbarrows are provided to schlep gear from cars down to tent site. I’m unsure if 1/2 hour pushing a wheelbarrow to a beachfront counts as hiking. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1131 "2019-12-11T18:08:28Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car. Prius? A hybrid? Neither fully electric nor fully ICE? Haven’t you been reading this thread, **Urban**? You must commit to one or the other, and stay committed to one or the other for the rest of your life! :mad: Seriously, my former boss love-love-loved her Prius. As a passenger, I thought it ranked somewhere between the Yaris and the Corolla. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1132 "2019-12-11T20:08:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You’re presuming that such rentals would happen often. Or even yearly. For many people, they would shade towards “never”. I’m ‘presuming’ it because for all of the people that I know, they happen at least a few times per month. And none of the statistics that EV proponents have come up with address the issue, or offer any support the idea that most people in the US who drive a car only take trips longer than the 70 miles that was under discussion (or the 200 miles that really runs into charging issues) once per year or less. I’m sure there are “many” people who don’t take longer trips by car, but I certainly don’t agree with the claim that they’re such a large majority of people that it’s fair to completely ignore occasional trips and focus only on daily commute when evaluating whether an EV works. > [@](#): > > Yes, I get that you have a daily commute of half a billion miles or whatever it was you didn’t say. But there are many, many people who are 1) not you, and 2) simply do not have driving needs that would require major accommodation if they were using an EV. This is typical of EV fanatics in this thread; they want to pretend that any situation that isn’t ideal for EVs is some weird edge case like “a daily commute of half a billion miles”. The fact that NONE of my examples have actually used a long daily commute (one of them used a zero length commute, one treated the commute as negligible for the trip, and the first used a 50-mile round trip commute which is supposedly in the ideal range for EVs) but you want to write as though I’m talking about a long daily commute is really telling. You simply don’t want to look at realistic vehicle use scenarios. > [@](#): > > Persons who have driving needs or otherwise are in situations that _don’t_ work well with EVs without major accommodations should not get EVs And they’re a lot more common than EV proponents on this thread want to pretend. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1133 "2019-12-11T20:09:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > 90 percent of this thread has been people telling you that you should never own an EV, and you arguing that your experience with cars and being unable to remember to plug electronics in at night is broadly applicable to life in America. I’m aware that EV fanatics on this thread have been making baseless and untrue claims, but thanks for the reminder. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1134 "2019-12-11T20:23:49Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram? A canoe, in the most typical one for me. There’s also a number of places where you get to a campsite by 4-wheeler or horse. Did you really not think this one through before asking? > [@](#): > > Oil change recommendations haven’t been at 3000 miles for some time. Most new cars are 5000 at a minimum & many are between 7500 & 10,000 miles; therefore, someone needing 4 oil changes a year is driving between 20,000 & 40,000 miles. An EV probably won’t work for those people given how far above the standard deviation of annual miles they drive means they probably have an almost 200 mile commute every day. It’s hilarious how far EV proponents twist around in their arguments. If I assume people are mostly following a ‘3 month’ oil change schedule which is the most oil changes most people will do in normal driving conditions, then it must mean that I’m only talking about people who drive 20,000-40,000 miles per year, and that therefore they’re all edge case drivers. But I just picked the highest reasonable number of oil changes to avoid being accused of lowballing the number of oil changes by the extremely oil change avoidant people in the thread and to give them the best benefit of the doubt. Picking the ‘worst reasonable case’ for the side you favor is the reasonable thing to do when examining a situation, and insisting that everyone who sticks to the old ‘3 month oil change’ recommendation must be driving 20k-40k miles per year and therefore is an edge case is not. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1135 "2019-12-11T20:27:45Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > Lest we not forget, [post #1089](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22015423&postcount=1089) was you taking offense to a simple statement that a hypothetical 5 minute walk was “not totally disrupting your weekend”, and yet somehow you’ve declared that anyone that doesn’t like wasting 30+ minutes 4 times a year for an oil change has a “unusual and extreme aversion.” Got it. Again, you’re not actually responding to things that I wrote, but to strawmen that you invented. My statement that someone who finds spending 30 minutes 4 times a year for oil changes more bother than 30 minutes multiple times per month to rent a car has an ‘unusual and extreme aversion’ to oil changes, as the amount of time they will spend on the rental is six or more times what they will spend on oil changes. And there was not a ‘hypothetical five minute walk’; there was a scenario with ten minutes of walking, plus several minutes of car and cable switching that would need to be coordinated with another person and timed in the middle of a weekend of what would be outdoor activities. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1136 "2019-12-11T20:30:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car. > > Can anyone tell me, how good are the air conditioners and heaters? My wife drives a Prius Prime. It’s a plug-in hybrid. It’s really quite a nice car and goes about 22 miles as a pure EV. After that, it gets almost 50 mph. It drives nice, and has all the latest tech. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1137 "2019-12-11T20:45:48Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Prius? A hybrid? Neither fully electric nor fully ICE? Haven’t you been reading this thread, **Urban**? You must commit to one or the other, and stay committed to one or the other for the rest of your life! > :mad: > > Seriously, my former boss love-love-loved her Prius. As a passenger, I thought it ranked somewhere between the Yaris and the Corolla. They remind me of my old GEO which had little room but was great as a commuter car. Also easy to park and turned on a dime. Bad part was the small tires were way expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1138 "2019-12-11T20:51:11Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Again, you’re not actually responding to things that I wrote, but to strawmen that you invented. My statement that someone who finds spending 30 minutes 4 times a year for oil changes more bother than 30 minutes multiple times per month to rent a car has an ‘unusual and extreme aversion’ to oil changes, as the amount of time they will spend on the rental is six or more times what they will spend on oil changes. And there was not a ‘hypothetical five minute walk’; there was a scenario with ten minutes of walking, plus several minutes of car and cable switching that would need to be coordinated with another person and timed in the middle of a weekend of what would be outdoor activities. Aren’t you building a strawman in imagining a scenario where an EV owner is renting an ICE vehicle “multiple times per month”? Because if someone _really_ needs to do that, they should trade in the EV, or buy a second car. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1139 "2019-12-11T21:17:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Aren’t you building a strawman in imagining a scenario where an EV owner is renting an ICE vehicle “multiple times per month”? Because if someone _really_ needs to do that, they should trade in the EV, or buy a second car. Yup. The market for current EVs is: 1. People who want and can afford a Tesla, and are willing to put up with its quirks for its benefits. or 2. People who a) have access to charging at home b) frequently take trips that are comfortably within both the total range of the EV and within the range of an overnight charge at their home and c) rarely drive more than the range of their EV OR own a second car for longer trips. So (1) or (2a and 2b and 2c) I’d guess that’s a smaller percentage of the population that some others in this thread might, but it’s not insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1140 "2019-12-11T21:23:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yup. > > The market for current EVs is: > > 1. People who want and can afford a Tesla, and are willing to put up with its quirks for its benefits. > or > 2. People who > a) have access to charging at home > b) frequently take trips that are comfortably within both the total range of the EV and within the range of an overnight charge at their home > and > c) rarely drive more than the range of their EV OR own a second car for longer trips. > > So (1) or (2a and 2b and 2c) > > I’d guess that’s a smaller percentage of the population that some others in this thread might, but it’s not insignificant. Nitpick. Category 1 doesn’t work unless they also meet 2(a), (b) and (c). People aren’t buying Tesla’s is they can’t charge at home and usually drive less than 250 miles in a day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=56) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=58)