# Electric Vehicle critics **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254 "2019-10-24T20:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1421 "2020-01-27T01:06:35Z")
\ Forget it Jake. It’s Trumptown. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1422 "2020-01-27T01:30:38Z")
Honestly, though, Tesla’s stock price is crazy high. I just checked and they produced about 367,000 cars last year and given their 100 billion market cap, that’s $272,000 per car produced. General Motors, on the other hand, produced about 2.9 million cars last year and is worth about 49 billion, or about $17,000 per car produced. Now, I am not a stock analyst and have no idea if that’s the correct way to value car companies. But it does seem that they’re given very different valuations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1423 "2020-01-27T01:42:09Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > yes and Uber is “worth” $57 billion even though they do nothing but incinerate cash and have no clear path to ever making a profit. If only the folks at Uber could get their customers to plunk down hard cash for a chance at a ride a year later. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1424 "2020-01-27T02:16:31Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Honestly, though, Tesla’s stock price is crazy high. I just checked and they produced about 367,000 cars last year and given their 100 billion market cap, that’s $272,000 per car produced. General Motors, on the other hand, produced about 2.9 million cars last year and is worth about 49 billion, or about $17,000 per car produced. Now, I am not a stock analyst and have no idea if that’s the correct way to value car companies. But it does seem that they’re given very different valuations. It’s based on future expectations, not current production. So maybe Tesla will be making 5 million cars in 10 years, plus solar, charging infrastructure, infrastructure batteries, etc. Maybe they’ll be the only company with good batteries and desirable long range cars. Also they’ll take over the trucking industry. I’m not saying any of those predictions will come true (take it to TSLAQ Twitter), but that expectations are Tesla is a growing company with bright prospects for the future. GM, Ford, etc are pretty much what you see is what you get. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1425 "2020-01-27T03:50:45Z")
Tesla would have to execute flawlessly on their plans to justify the current price. I bought it up only as an indication that they must have passed through some threshold of negativity. It’s not rational (it’s not like there was some step change in Tesla itself), but stock price is about perception and perception isn’t rational. Even Jim Cramer seems to be a fanboy these days. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1426 "2020-01-28T21:42:39Z")
It’s valuation is more like that of a tech company than of an auto company. For those that own Teslas, can you (intentionally) lock your car with your phone inside since that’s normally your ‘key’? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1427 "2020-01-28T21:48:00Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > For those that own Teslas, can you (intentionally) lock your car with your phone inside since that’s normally your ‘key’? Yes. You use the backup RFID card on the B pillar, just as if your phone was dead. I think you need to disable Bluetooth, though, so the phone doesn’t unlock the car again. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1428 "2020-01-28T23:18:58Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Yes. You use the backup RFID card on the B pillar, just as if your phone was dead. I think you need to disable Bluetooth, though, so the phone doesn’t unlock the car again. I know the RDID card is the valet ‘key’ but I also know that with a lot of the keys that stay in your pocket, you _can’t_ lock them in the car; I thought they were using some form of RFID to communicate between the fob & the vehicle. The car _won’t_ lock if the fob is inside of the passenger compartment; wasn’t sure what Tesla did with the phone. Can someone test, please? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1429 "2020-01-28T23:42:04Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I know the RDID card is the valet ‘key’ but I also know that with a lot of the keys that stay in your pocket, you _can’t_ lock them in the car; I thought they were using some form of RFID to communicate between the fob & the vehicle. No, it’s definitely Bluetooth. Hence my suggestion to disable it. I know for a fact that disabling Bluetooth disables the key functionality. I don’t know for a fact if it has some other mechanism that allows locking the phone inside the car without doing this, but that would just be an extra convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1430 "2020-01-29T00:39:18Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I don’t know for a fact if it has some other mechanism that allows locking the phone inside the car without doing this, but that would just be an extra convenience. That wouldn’t be a feature, that would be a bug. I never run with my phone, nor do many/most of the runners that I know. I’m also friends with a bunch of triathletes; phones & water don’t do well together. While a gym has lockers, the summertime swim club doesn’t, nor does the lake/bay when they’re doing open water swims. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1431 "2020-01-29T01:15:45Z")
I think you’re still misunderstanding my comment. You can always lock your phone in the car if you disable Bluetooth. This takes just a few seconds when you leave the car, so not a big deal, but is an extra step. In principle, Tesla could have designed their software to not require this extra step: for instance, disable the proximity unlock when the RFID unlock was used last. It’s possible they do this already; I haven’t tested. But regardless, this would just be a small extra convenience, since at most it’s just saving you those few seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1432 "2020-01-29T01:56:34Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > That wouldn’t be a feature, that would be a bug. I never run with my phone, nor do many/most of the runners that I know. I’m also friends with a bunch of triathletes; phones & water don’t do well together. While a gym has lockers, the summertime swim club doesn’t, nor does the lake/bay when they’re doing open water swims. Are you seriously thinking that it is not possible to leave one’s phone inside a Tesla when one goes running? I can attest that it is easier to leave a phone in a Tesla than it is to leave a bulky RFID fob in the car when going running. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1433 "2020-01-29T03:20:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What did you post? How about “Early adoption of EVs was around 1895”? The entire discussion here is not about _any_ sort of electrically-powered vehicle but instead specifically about modern mass-market electric passenger automobiles or light trucks. Is this thread limited to discussion of personal sedans and utes? What is the thread title? Something about criticism of EVs, continuously built globally for well over a century. They still face the same limitation: battery capacity. Now we have “early adopters” of lithium-laden personal vehicles, not unlike “early adopters” of custom skateboards. Whoopee. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1434 "2020-01-29T05:15:18Z")
Hey, I just bought one of those new-fangled cars that runs on petroleum distillate, but the crank start nearly took my arm off. Any advice here? I generally open the mixture control knob by one turn but the motor isn’t smooth at idle. Is there anything wrong with doing another quarter turn? I’ve been purchasing the so-called “gasoline” in half-gallon glass jars at the general store, but sometimes they bounce out of the car on the rough local roads and break. Should I use metal canisters instead? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1435 "2020-01-29T05:23:28Z")
Oh my God! I have just realized my car is “lithium-laden”. Does this mean it’s going to explode? Oh no, what a mistake I seem to have made! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1436 "2020-01-29T06:17:27Z")
You know, just the other day I was filling up my Tesla with the lithium pump, but I got distracted and I overfilled the tank, spilling lithium everywhere. Luckily it only splashed on my hand on the ground, though the vapors couldn’t have been good for me as I smelled them for about a half hour afterward. I’m glad there was no spark or flame source as a lithium fire is no joke. Maybe one day we’ll be able to recharge our cars without dangerous chemical pumps operated by untrained end users. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1437 "2020-01-29T16:51:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Oh my God! I have just realized my car is “lithium-laden”. Does this mean it’s going to explode? Oh no, what a mistake I seem to have made! No it just means it is less prone to dementia and has less emotional swings so it acts more like a Toyota Camry. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1438 "2020-01-30T01:21:26Z")
These EV threads have been a real goldmine. I thought my outside experience with anti-EV arguments were pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel, but in fact they weren’t anywhere close. “Lithium-laden” as a pejorative is pretty good. I got a good laugh out of that one; the alliteration is a nice touch. However, **Bibliothecarius** ’ contribution in another thread is really unbeatable: EVs are bad due to their [sensitivity to EMP attack](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22102505&postcount=33). Really top notch; the only improvement I can think of would be to add zombies to the mix. Or maybe not–right now it perfectly straddles that line between parody and sincerity (i.e., Poe’s law). To change it would disrupt that perfect balance. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1439 "2020-01-31T00:27:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “EV’s are too expensive. Of course, I’m referring to high end Teslas” > > "Also, EV’s have not enough range - only 82 miles!. Of course, I’m referring to a Honda Fit " > > “EV’s cannot handle rough roads. Of course, I’m referring to an electric Tuk tuk from Indonesia.” > > “EV’s are so small! Of course, I’m referring to an electric Smart car” > Is there a name for this kind of logical fallacy? It is possible to want more than one of these things in a single vehicle, and no current electric vehicle delivers more than one of them like gasoline vehicles do. I know what the range of a high end Tesla is but the price would have to be more like a Honda Fit. Or even a vehicle that’s much more capable of the rough stuff because it has larger tires and AWD like any number of crossover SUVs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/1440 "2020-01-31T01:13:26Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > It is possible to want more than one of these things in a single vehicle, and no current electric vehicle delivers more than one of them like gasoline vehicles do. All Teslas go significantly more than 82 miles (the lowest range one currently for sale is 220 miles), and all are significantly bigger than a Smart car or other commuter car. So it’s just factually wrong that no EV delivers more than one of the things on **EP** ’s list. > [@Mdcastle](#): > > Or even a vehicle that’s much more capable of the rough stuff because it has larger tires and AWD like any number of crossover SUVs. The AWD on a Tesla works better than that on any gasoline car (4WD is something else of course). It handles “rough stuff” as well as any gas car with similar ground clearance. People who want a serious off-roading vehicle will have to wait for Cybertruck, Rivian, or Bollinger. But Tesla’s current offerings are comparable or superior to their gasoline equivalents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=73)