# Electric Vehicle critics **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 24, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254 "2019-10-24T20:43:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/161 "2019-10-30T02:53:23Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > An ICE will take a hit in the winter when they add ethanol to the mix, but nothing like 40%. > > I think there is one issue to tackle with EV that will catapult them into the mainstream. Range Anxiety. Solve range anxiety (at a comparable to ICE cost) and you’ve got it. > > I figure a 500 mile range is the tipping point where a lot of people will conclude that it has ‘enough’ range for anything they realistically do. Not where it is good enough for 98% of their driving, but ALL their driving. Also not all of everyone’s driving, just all of their own personal driving. > > It requires a couple of infrastructure developments, though. **Widespread, robust, home charging is first.** Obviously this is an individual decision, but the power companies need the ability to support this use case. Anyone who uses their car a lot will need the capacity for a full 500 mile charge overnight, even if that’s only 6-7 hours. > > Second is destination charging. You go to a hotel, drive 450 miles to get there, you (and a lot of other guests) need to have charging at the hotel that will fill your car by the time you leave in the morning. Not “we have 20 chargers, pick any one that’s not being used” you need to be guaranteed a charger for your stay. A hotel with 100 rooms needs something on the order of 100 maxed out level 2 charging stations. That’s a lot of power, a couple of megawatts, on top of what the hotel itself needs, power that is all going to be used at the same time during every holiday weekend. Spot on except for two things 1. How do you account for people who can’t do home charging; maybe an apartment complex can add many chargers but what about city dwellers? An area with row homes/browstones that were turned into three apartments; that building might have four EVs yet they can’t all park in front of their property. Some people in popular areas may have to park \*blocks \*from their home currently; that doesn’t change because of what’s under the hood. 2. Even if a hotel is at max capacity, with everyone driving an EV, not everyone will get in at the same time so they won’t all be charging at the same time, nor as it’s pointed out will everyone need a charge every night. Also remember, overnight rates are less expensive in areas where they have time-metered rates because there’s less people using power; most offices are closed & most people are asleep. Yes, we’ll need more total electricity but not necessarily more peak electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/162 "2019-10-30T03:45:12Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I believe that J1772 chargers don’t generally have locks, so under some circumstances, someone could take your now-idle charger and use it on their car in an adjacent space. If there are few chargers but plenty of empty packing spaces, I’d say that workaround makes idleness substantially less bad. No locks on J1772. CCS has an active latch, but can be released at the charging unit. I lifted this idea from some site selling these and made my own, so I have these dry erase placards I can leave that on my dash that have various messages. Like, “Feel free to unplug me at 80%” and gives my phone number if someone needs me to move. I rarely charge at public places long enough to get anywhere near full so at least so far, I’ve always cleared out well in advance of being rude. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/163 "2019-10-30T04:07:29Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > At least according to [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Supercharger#Supercharging_network) a single super charger bay costs $270k even for a 6 bed bed and breakfast that’s $1.5mm that is the infrastructure investment I was referring to. A bed and breakfast doesn’t need a Supercharger. L2 chargers are fine for overnight charging, and should be around $1000 per bay. And really, it almost makes more sense to just install a bunch of outlets and let customers bring their own charge cables. That’s only a couple hundred bucks of materials per port. RV parks already manage to do this on the cheap (and are sometimes used by EV drivers when nothing else is handy). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/164 "2019-10-30T04:10:14Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > 1. Admittedly this is really extreme. The airport has a bunch of EV charging stations in the long term parking lot. I’m almost certain they wouldn’t allow people to plug in before leaving for their trip and leave the car at the charging station the entire time. I assume what you’re supposed to do there is to park in a normal spot, and after returning from your trip move to the charging station if you need to top up your battery to make it home. I admit I would find that a little inconvenient since I usually want to get home as quickly as possible after a long trip, though as charging becomes faster it will become less of an issue. At Seatac airport parking they have spots you can plug in (110 volts) for as long as you’re there. No additional charge. It takes me 30 hours to fully charge after my 62 mile trip to airport. There is a supercharger at the cell phone lot for those in need ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/165 "2019-10-30T04:47:26Z")
Maybe super chargers are expensive, but level 1 and level 2 charging cables aren’t. I think our level 1 cable was about $100. A quick Google turns up this level 2 charging cable for $300. > **[Level 2 EV Charger by EV Gear | 30 ft Portable Plug-In Charger, 110v - 240v |...](https://www.amazon.com/Level-EV-Charger-Gear-Portable/dp/B074VP6Y2D)** > > Buy Level 2 EV Charger by EV Gear | 30 ft Portable Plug-In Charger, 110v - 240v | Includes Level 1 Adapter | Works with all Electric & Hybrid Cars such as Chevy Volt/Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Prius Prime, Tesla at Amazon. Customer reviews and photos may be... It also costs something to have an electrician wire a new outlet, but that’s not a major infrastructure cost. Yeah, that’s not good enough for a “gas station” replacement, but it’s plenty for a hotel, where guests can leave the car plugged in over night. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/166 "2019-10-30T05:58:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Maybe super chargers are expensive, but level 1 and level 2 charging cables aren’t. I think our level 1 cable was about $100. A quick Google turns up this level 2 charging cable for $300. > [https://www.amazon.com/Level-EV-Charger-Gear-Portable/dp/B074VP6Y2D](https://www.amazon.com/Level-EV-Charger-Gear-Portable/dp/B074VP6Y2D) > > It also costs something to have an electrician wire a new outlet, but that’s not a major infrastructure cost. > > Yeah, that’s not good enough for a “gas station” replacement, but it’s plenty for a hotel, where guests can leave the car plugged in over night. Thanks for this. Makes a great deal of sense. I get really tired of hearing how a charger “costs $270,000” so therefore it is impossible for a hotel to put one in. NOBODY needs a level 3 supercharger for an overnight stay at a hotel. I recently stayed in Vancouver at a downtown hotel - they had several 110V plugs in the underground parking and directed me to one. Then when I left, they waived the parking fee because I was driving an EV. Guess which hotel I am going back to, and which one I direct anyone with an EV to? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/167 "2019-10-30T07:54:05Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > For those of you questioning the 40% figure I should have said _ **Up to** _ 40%. I live in an area where -30 is common and -40C without windchill is nothing unusual during the winter months. Anecdotally, I could easily achieve 600km on a tank of gas in my 07 Legacy Wagon. That dropped to 400 during the peak cold months with the same type of driving. That does not include the money I spent on electricity for the block heater. During my deployments to Inuvik we would leave our diesel trucks running during the cold snaps as they would not start otherwise. For those of you living in milder climes, obviously you won’t take anywhere near that kind of a hit, but you won’t in an EV either and that was the point I was trying to make. Fair enough, but actually the figures seem to suggest that even those in milder climates _will_ see 40% drops in real-world EV range (where the test was done at a fairly modest -7) and those are exactly the sort of conditions where I have driven ICE’s and seen nothing approaching that. Heck worst case scenario, last January I drove back through Austria and Germany in -10, heavy snow, crawling at 20 mph in many places and snow chains on for 80 miles. A normal 4.5 hour journey to Stuttgart took 11 hours and my average MPG was 50 when normally it would be 60. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/168 "2019-10-30T10:10:09Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > A bit of a side question: Is there any agreed upon etiquette among EV owners regarding how long is appropriate to leave a car parked at a charging station after it’s fully charged? No universal etiquette, no. In Québec it’s now illegal to park a car in a designated charging spot if it’s not charging (and also, of course, if it’s not pluggable at all). Most of the level 2 and level 3 stations charge by the minute but [the billing continues when you’re finished charging](https://lecircuitelectrique.com/charging-stations-and-rates), which motivates people to remove their cars (especially on level 3). Depending on where the charger is located, it may or may not be physically possible to unplug the charger from another car and connect it to your own. But it does happen, and as a Volt owner (with a petrol engine as backup) I couldn’t really fault somebody for unplugging my car if they really needed it. (As long as I’m not paying for their charge, and they’re not physically blocking my car.) The electric vehicle owners’ association offers a little card you can leave on your dashboard with your first name and phone number and an paperclip indicating the time you expect to be finished charging. It’s an imperfect solution, as not everyone likes having their name and phone number viewable in public. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/169 "2019-10-30T10:26:50Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > Depending on where the charger is located, it may or may not be physically possible to unplug the charger from another car and connect it to your own. But it does happen, and as a Volt owner (with a petrol engine as backup) I couldn’t really fault somebody for unplugging my car if they really needed it. (As long as I’m not paying for their charge, and they’re not physically blocking my car.) This is another hurdle that hopefully infrastructure expansion will help with. As it stands, I never have to wait to refuel my car. To have a potential half-hour wait is a deal-breaker for me and many others. I’d need confidence that I can pull up and refuel immediately at a place of my choosing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/170 "2019-10-30T11:06:52Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Spot on except for two things > > 1. How do you account for people who can’t do home charging; maybe an apartment complex can add many chargers but what about city dwellers? An area with row homes/browstones that were turned into three apartments; that building might have four EVs yet they can’t all park in front of their property. Some people in popular areas may have to park \*blocks \*from their home currently; that doesn’t change because of what’s under the hood. > > 2. Even if a hotel is at max capacity, with everyone driving an EV, not everyone will get in at the same time so they won’t all be charging at the same time, nor as it’s pointed out will everyone need a charge every night. Also remember, overnight rates are less expensive in areas where they have time-metered rates because there’s less people using power; most offices are closed & most people are asleep. Yes, we’ll need more total electricity but not necessarily more peak electricity. #1 is clearly an issue. It could be that big cities will be bastions of ICE infrastructure, or go headlong into widespread quick charging, or valet charging/parking services. It’s likely going to be a slower and different implementation than in the suburbs, given the high cost of infrastructure changes. #2 I like your point about not everyone needing a full charge every night. It may turn out to be a wash with day/night electric usage, which would make it easier to implement. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/171 "2019-10-30T13:36:03Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thanks for this. Makes a great deal of sense. > > I get really tired of hearing how a charger “costs $270,000” so therefore it is impossible for a hotel to put one in. NOBODY needs a level 3 supercharger for an overnight stay at a hotel. > > I recently stayed in Vancouver at a downtown hotel - they had several 110V plugs in the underground parking and directed me to one. Then when I left, they waived the parking fee because I was driving an EV. Guess which hotel I am going back to, and which one I direct anyone with an EV to? Based on what we’ve talked about in this thread I don’t think a L2 charger will be an acceptable substitute for people who have range anxiety. The original scenario was someone with a 500 mile range who showed up to a hotel 90% drained and was able to charge over night. It looks like best performance of a L2 charger is 70 miles per hour so they would get a full charge in 7 hours but there would be no sharing and they would need one electrical port per space. But I think people are going to still have range anxiety if they drive for 6 hours and then stop for 7 hours. This would only work for people who are driving to a destination for their vacation but don’t drive (less than 50 miles) once they get to their destination. To beat range anxiety you’re going to need to be able to either have virtually infinite miles and the ability to recharge them reasonably (anything more than 560 miles makes level 2 impractical) or they need to be able to add on miles quickly. In my mind either of those require super charger speeds. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/172 "2019-10-30T14:49:34Z")
Here’s your EV: 1500km/900 mile range minimum - Full charge in 10 minutes or less - Inexpensive chargers located at home or on every block - Can tow 15,000 pound Recreational Vehicle - Can park in a small parking space - Is able to haul 2000 pounds of hay - Can operate as a self contained working van for plumbing contractor - Costs under $10,000 - Suffers no loss of efficiency from -40 to +120, can travel through 10 feet of snow If an EV can’t do all that, then fuck it, they will never work. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/173 "2019-10-30T15:00:02Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Based on what we’ve talked about in this thread I don’t think a L2 charger will be an acceptable substitute for people who have range anxiety. The original scenario was someone with a 500 mile range who showed up to a hotel 90% drained and was able to charge over night. It looks like best performance of a L2 charger is 70 miles per hour so they would get a full charge in 7 hours but there would be no sharing and they would need one electrical port per space. But I think people are going to still have range anxiety if they drive for 6 hours and then stop for 7 hours. This would only work for people who are driving to a destination for their vacation but don’t drive (less than 50 miles) once they get to their destination. > > To beat range anxiety you’re going to need to be able to either have virtually infinite miles and the ability to recharge them reasonably (anything more than 560 miles makes level 2 impractical) or they need to be able to add on miles quickly. In my mind either of those require super charger speeds. Isn’t that just the sort of thing the OP was initially complaining about? “Here’s a hypothetical edge case where EVs might not be quite adequate, therefore something something.” These “people who have range anxiety” of which you speak should just be viewed as irrelevant. As EVs make inroads into the market serving those portions of the populace who are already well-served by current offerings and the current level of infrastructure development, that infrastructure will continue to be expanded and EVs will continue to improve in performance until a huge portion of the public will find EVs entirely sufficient to their needs. There will remain a few niches where EVs legitimately won’t have the required performance, and a few larger niches where EVs would be entirely adequate but stubborn people will insist they do not. There is no reason to attempt to address the concerns of the latter. In your example, while a few people at a hotel might have need for supercharger-level speeds, that doesn’t mean that hotels are going to have to plan for a supercharger bay for every room. L2 charging through most of their lot and a couple of faster stations (or even just proximity to third-party fast chargers) is likely to be perfectly adequate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/174 "2019-10-30T15:13:03Z")
Also, Tesla normally doesn’t sell its superchargers, so if it thinks there is a need for some at a hotel, it can pay for them and the installation costs. Or it can set up a bank of them in a spot near multiple hotels. Plus as said above, only Tesla EVs can use the superchargers, so if I operated a hotel, I’d spend my money on chargers that can be used by various types of EVs. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/175 "2019-10-30T16:33:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Here’s your EV: -400 mile range minimum - Full charge in 10 minutes or less - Inexpensive chargers located at home or on every block Yes, the above describes every single ICE vehicle. If you’re argument is that EV are only useful for niche users then I guess I should move on from this thread. On the other hand if you are arguing that EV could receive widespread acceptance and be more than a niche short commute vehicle then if should have basic car functions. I think range anxiety is a large reason that people are not buying the current crop of EVs. Most [people drive for vacations in the US](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/travel/road-trips-in-the-united-states.amp.html) and most people don’t like staying at a hotel within 8 hours of their house. So at a minimum to be useful for 25% of americans EVs need to be able to go 600 (8 x 70 with a 40 mile buffer) miles on a charge during normal vacation times like Christmas (when its cold), or they need to be able to fill up along the way in a reasonable time, or they need to be so cheap that the hassel of renting a car just for vacations is acceptable to people as a normal cost of owning an EV. I’m not saying that people who either fly if its more than 3 hours or never leave their city are wrong to own EVs but I think that that is the niche use case and its why that only 2% of people find that use case a good fit for them. To expand that to 20% of the population EVs do need to be better then they are. If the range anxiety problem is solved and the median car price stays they same I would expect EVs to capture 80% of the market in 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/176 "2019-10-30T16:39:32Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Also, Tesla normally doesn’t sell its superchargers, so if it thinks there is a need for some at a hotel, it can pay for them and the installation costs. Or it can set up a bank of them in a spot near multiple hotels. > > Plus as said above, only Tesla EVs can use the superchargers, so if I operated a hotel, I’d spend my money on chargers that can be used by various types of EVs. I was using super charger generically. You’re right very few business like that would install a proprietary hardware and hope it meets their customers needs but I doubt Tesla is charging a huge markup on the superchargers and so the generic one is probably a very similar cost to buy. I also agree the a supercharger station in the middle of a bunch of hotels is much more likely which is exactly what I was proposing. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/177 "2019-10-30T16:41:36Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > -400 mile range minimum > > - Full charge in 10 minutes or less > - Inexpensive chargers located at home or on every block > > Yes, the above describes every single ICE vehicle. you can fill your gas tank at home? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/178 "2019-10-30T16:52:53Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Also, Tesla normally doesn’t sell its superchargers, so if it thinks there is a need for some at a hotel, it can pay for them and the installation costs. Or it can set up a bank of them in a spot near multiple hotels. > > > > Plus as said above, only Tesla EVs can use the superchargers, so if I operated a hotel, I’d spend my money on chargers that can be used by various types of EVs. > > I was using super charger generically. You’re right very few business like that would install a proprietary hardware and hope it meets their customers needs but I doubt Tesla is charging a huge markup on the superchargers and so the generic one is probably a very similar cost to buy. > > I also agree the a supercharger station in the middle of a bunch of hotels is much more likely which is exactly what I was proposing. You quoted a cost of $270,000 for a Tesla supercharger, which does sound like a ridiculous amount. [Here](https://smartchargeamerica.com/electric-car-chargers/commercial/chargepoint-express-250/) is a stand-alone charger for $40,800. Even if you figure a few thousand more for installation costs, it’s substantially less than the Tesla charger, and it can charge two cars at the same time. There are other, less expensive chargers at the same site. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/179 "2019-10-30T16:53:38Z")
There are a lot of people who live in rural areas, far from any gas station. It’s not practical to insist they drive 10-20 miles just to fill up their tank. Therefore, ICE vehicles are too niche. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254/180 "2019-10-30T17:17:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > you can fill your gas tank at home? Silly elitist! 100 percent of Americans who live above an Exxon can gas up at home. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electric-vehicle-critics/842254.md?page=10)