I work with a lot of people like that, it seems to be the suburban mindset. People move further and further away from work, then complain about how much driving they have to do.
This is not even as bad as it often gets on other sites.
It’s common - “this is why an EV won’t work for me”, followed by extreme cases, and then goalpost moving. I had one guy whose daily commute morphed into a 150km journey through a remote frozen wasteland. And he concluded with “and that’s why electric vehicles are terrible for anyone.”
At least here we don’t have the outrageous bullshitters and liars like on other sites I complained about. Nobody is posting pictures of open pit copper mines claiming they are “lithium mines”. Nobody is claiming that EV batteries explode regularly, killing children. I’ve seen it all.
I think on the whole, people are not good with changing technologies on this kind of scale. I imagine in the early days of the gas automobile, it was similar. People were scoffing that this silly toy would replace good old horse transportation. How would roads be built that these new “cars” could drive on? That would be impossible. Where would people buy gasoline? Youl could run out of gas and then what?
To be fair, cars in the early part of the 20th Century were a pain in the ass. This page has a chart showing the locations where oils, grease or lubricant needed to be added, as often as every thousand miles and the motor oil changed every 2,000 miles. All of those gas stations we see on the side of the road with an attached convenience store? Not that long ago, those convenience stores were actual service stations for autos with mechanics doing lube jobs on cars.
But none of that has been true for a good long while. And an EV doesn’t need motor or transmission oil changes.
Two light poles in the front of the building, but they were along driving lanes, meaning can only charge cars on one side of them unless they reconfigure the parking lot. I have not stated it can’t be done, but what’s the incentive for the hotel owner to do such at this point? It’s a chicken & egg thing; until they get demand, they’re not doing it but until there’s supply people aren’t using EV cars on trips because of range anxiety issues so there’s minimal demand.
MMDV (My mileage does vary). As stated previously, I do anywhere from 5-8 hr drives between 6-9 weekends a year. Many of those are two days; so out one day & back the next, usually after a race. I try to minimize my seat time so the last thing I want to do is add 30-45 mins sitting in a restaurant. Tank of gas if necessary; pee, if necessary; (cold) caffeine acquisition, if necessary but food is usually in the car, either snacks I brought or maybe a quick fast food to go to cut down on end-to-end time & the amount of time I need to sit for that day.
On trips north, I can fuel & pee at the same time about 2 hrs in & then not need to stop for the rest of the way (thanks NJ requiring pumped gas).
Most of my trip are into rural areas; it’s not uncommon to not even have cell service for a significant portion of time; I don’t expect to find fast chargers out there anytime soon. At least three of them this year, the hotel was a crashpad, only there for 7 hrs or less. If they have a charger & it’s full or broken when I pull in, then I’m screwed. The range & refuel ability is the reason I won’t even consider one.
Until the average EV’s range comes up to what the Model S, which is priced like a luxury car, & therefore beyond the means of many I don’t see the situation changing that much.
My read was that if there are lights there are presumably already underground wires leading to those lights that may offer opportunities for splicing other things onto without ripping up the entire parking lot.
However I am an idiot and thus may be misunderstanding the situation.
You are apparently unaware of the Telsa destination charging network. As I understand it, Tesla will provide level 2 chargers and install them at qualifying businesses such as hotels, restaurants, and shopping centers. They only work with Teslas and the business will be responsible for things like compliance with local regulation (zoning or fees, for example) and paying for the electricity. It turns out there’s lots of demand for this, just look at the map at that link.
A couple of lights in the parking lot probably isn’t the most robust of circuits. Joe Hotelowner could probably fairly easily put in one or two Level 1 charging stations but they’re not very fast but costs go up significantly when you gotta start trenching conduit under asphalt. That doesn’t help me at all if you arrived first & are plugged in & need to be plugged in all night to charge. Gas stations usually have multiple pumps, if one pump is down, I drive maybe 10’ further & fill up. As I’ve stated previously in this thread, I’ve never seen more than two EV filling stations at one place. If you’re using one & one is broken for whatever reason, then I’m SoL.
Until hotels put in enough Level 2 chargers that I’m basically guaranteed to start the (early) morning off with a full charge then I just can’t chance it. My feeling would be the same if we all drove EV cars & ICE was the new technology. I won’t consider one until much better refueling infrastructure is in place as my lifestyle requires I’d need it, on average, every sixth to seventh week.
I’ve been driving an EV for 5 years, and have charged somewhere other than my house maybe 10 times. I have never once found all available stalls taken or had to wait to charge. So in my area at least, there is sufficient infrastructure for the number of EVs on the road.
For those arguing that the current number of chargers can’t support a ten-fold increase in EV use, then congratulations, Captain Obvious, you are correct. If you for some reason think that it was possible to install all the existing stations but will now be exceedingly difficult to install any more, then I assure you, it’s not.
If another hotel - not the one you stayed at - has lights in the parking lot they can simply add outlets to the lights and let EV owners use their own EVSE to plug in. Cost to the hotel owner is minimal.
Everyone who drives an EV today on a road trip has a plan for where to charge. Nobody just counts on their hotel to have level 2 charging. Any yet, complaints from EV owners about being unable to charge on their road trips is becoming very uncommon. In fact, EV owners of anything are excited that their road trips are becoming quite convenient.
So when you talk about how difficult it is for an EV to go on a road trip, those comments are out of touch with people who are doing them as we speak.
The model 3 long range is not quite as pricey. Nor is the Chevy Volt. But yeah, if you need significantly over 300 miles on a charge, EVs aren’t there yet.
If you only sometimes need that, the PHEVs are definitely in the running today, however.
I’ve been driving a PHEV for a little longer than that. It only went 18 miles on a charge when new. I charge it all the time (although I never have to, because it runs great on gas.) I’ve sometimes found all the available stall full. Annoyingly, often the stall is taken by a car that isn’t charging, either an ICE or an EV that the owner didn’t bother to plug in (I see Teslas in EV spots, not plugged in, all the time.)
I have to ask, someone says they drive like 40 miles.
But what about time? often people spend an hour or more just sitting still or crawling along in stop and go traffic. And in many areas your still running your air conditioner.
How do these cars handle that?
If you’re not running head or A/C, you can sit in traffic for days.
With heat or A/C, there is some power usage, but in my experience ( and others) it is not bad at all. It’s actually a worse hit to your range to speed.
Yes, stop and go traffic is way more efficient in an EV because of the regenerative braking. ICE vehicles get better mileage on the highway without stops and starts, but EVs get better mileage in the city. As EP says, you’ll take a little hit from A/C, but the slow driving will more than balance it, so your range will be farther even with all the extra time.
How bad is the hit to range with speed? Like I said I like to drive 80 mph most of the time when I’m on the freeway.
All cars take a serious dump in mileage at that speed, around 25 percent or so. EVs are no different.
Another question. The ordinary way to dip one’s toe into this technology would be to get a good deal on a used car, and use it as a second car.
But back in Post 123, Puzzlegal noted battery packs wear out. I think I read somewhere that the useful life is somewhere around 70,000 miles. So if I buy an EV with 60,000+ miles on it, how steep will the power dropoff be? If I buy one with 70,000 miles, how much can I expect to pay to have the battery pack replaced or refurbished or whatever needs to be done?
I remember doing this before, in a different thread on the Dope; I don’t remember who’s thread it was but even they agreed that they wouldn’t work for me. In the two coastal corridors it’s doable but where I tend to be driving (to & thru Pensyltucky - I’m used to not having cell phone coverage the whole way; one regular 5 hr drive I can’t even use the phone for 1-1½ hrs of said drive to give you an idea of how desolate it is.) That map is pretty sparse & half of what’s there is for customers only. I’m not so much interested in a hotel 30-40 mins from my destination, which means 1-1½ hour round trip.
70,000 miles is not even close to end of life for these batteries. As an example, one of the more prominent EV bloggers has shown the charge capacity at 70,000 miles is still 92% of new. And that’s one of the more pessimistic reports I’ve seen, from a user doing many DCFC charges.
There’s a fine line between arguing against the general misperception that EVs are impractical and arguing against the impracticality in a specific case.
I crossed that line in the post you quoted: I have no basis to argue that EVs are practical for you; even though I strongly believe that EVs are suitable for more people than those who currently realize it, as a general matter.
So that looks like the Model 3 loses 40-50% of its range doing 80. I didn’t analyze every model there but that makes Christmas vacation a little more terrifying. Any information on how the cold penalty stacks on that? Will my 400 mile range go to 180-200 assuming its 0 F outside?
Also why is it such a huge penalty? My JGC has a sticker of 27 mpg on the highway and I generally get 16 mpg when I’m doing 80 that’s as good as the best Model 3.