In 2020, as a MY2021.
Herbert Diess, CEO of Volkswagen:
Tesla as a whole doesn’t yet compare to the likes of VW or GM due to not yet having a broad lineup, but comparing model-to-model, the Model 3 does very well and is not a niche product.
200-mile rated range realistically means you can count on it to make a 150-mile trip, maybe a bit less in winter. And it still takes additional time & planning to find a charger during a road trip, especially in politically conservative parts of the US.
I really wish GM did a better job of selling the plug-in hybrid concept. You do end up with a more complicated car, but it just makes life easier. My Chevy Volt only uses gas when we go out of town, and when we do, we never have to think about finding a charger.
The Prius Prime is even better (in my opinion, having owned both). It drives better on gas as a hybrid after the charge is gone than the Volt does. Although I like both cars.
However, after getting an iPace, I don’t think I’ll ever have another car that uses gas for anything.
Not just GM. My parents ended up with a PHEV Fusion, but I think the only reason is that they got a good lease deal on it. They love it now, and fully get the idea that 24 miles of EV range is actually just fine for puttering around town (cutting their gas usage by probably 2/3), but the dealer did not do a good job of explaining the concept when they bought it.
The Prius is not an EV. It’s very different, in fact - it’s a gasoline-powered car highly optimized for efficiency. The current model Prius listed as 121 horsepower total power. It actually has a 98-horsepower engine and a 72-horsepower electric motor, but I don’t think they ever get used at full power together. And the electric motor is only good for acceleration, not sustained power output.
On the other hand, the Chevy Bolt EV has a 200-horsepower motor with 361 N⋅m torque. And that’s fairly typical of modern mainstream EVs. Modern EVs also have good weight distribution (all the batteries mounted low, and evenly distributed between front & rear).
My dad’s got a Prius Prime, which he plugs in every night. Every couple of months he deliberately switches it to run on the gas specifically to burn it, lest it sit in the tank unused and go bad.
Not that I can do anything until/unless I get into a house, but if I got a hybrid I’d never think about doing such things, and if I ever needed it the gas would probably be bad. I’d rather get a pure electric and have a larger battery than deal with gas that I will virtually never use.
Well, that leaves me with a concern. As you note, the 17-minute charge is only a partial charge. I don’t know how much additional range it will give me, but I’ll take your word for it that I will arrive in Chicago with little reserve. Which means my battery will be declining as I near Chicago and have to fight my way through traffic to get to my son’s apartment on the North Side (which does not have a charging station - hell, I’m lucky if I can find a parking spot on the street.) Throw in a Chicago winter, and I feel like I’d better get a charge up in Joliet or Bollingbrook. That eliminates the time savings of that partial charge back in Bloomington.
And this isn’t just about my trips to Chicago or Cleveland. What about people who want to drive from Minneapolis to Sioux Falls. It’s less than 300 miles, but once you get on I-90, those charging stations get fewer and further apart. Throw in subzero temperatures and an early sunset and there’s a lot of “range anxiety” coming into play.
Has anyone ever calculated the winter range of a fully charged Tesla in the Midwest vs. So. Cal.?
Range loss can be around 40% on the very coldest days, around -40 C. The general consensus I’ve seen is that it’s more like a 25% loss on moderately cold days, say a bit below freezing.
Teslas do have distinct advantages in winter. The climate control can be easily controlled from the app, so it can be toasty warm before you get in. And the AWD is essentially the best you can get–far superior to pretty much any car or SUV. This guy does tests of cars on rollers and I doubt you could better than a Tesla except with a 4WD with locking differentials.
You got an iPace!!?? Care to talk about it?
Sure. I love it. Bought it in June. 5,000 miles of fun so far
ETA. If you ask my wife, it’s the only thing I ever want to talk about these days
I think an I-Pace might be my dream car. I first read about it roughly a year ago and thought that the list price was like $50,000. I probably saw the price listed in British Pounds.
I need AWD at minimum where I live. I also have a weakness for British cars. I’ve bought 2 Land Rovers new. They were the relatively inexpensive but completely unreliable Freelanders.
When I finally realized the actual price of the I-Pace, I was pretty disappointed. While I could afford it, I just can’t justify it.
So, go on…
IMO it looks cool, drives smooth and fast, and has every luxury feature you could want. It was a choice between the iPace and the Model X, both good cars. It’s a big step up from my beloved 2012 Volt.
I bought a Bolt this year. It has an eye-opening amount of scoot. Flooring it at anything up to highway speeds delivers a potent kick in the ass and will have the traction control stepping in. Perceptually, it feels faster than the twin turbo BMW it replaced.
Just a quick point on this one:
Some of my friends who have never driven an EV got confused about this too. “What if I get stuck in gridlock and my battery runs out”, they asked me.
They are thinking like someone with a gasoliine engine that can run out of gas while idling. An EV does not use much power at all while stopped. Getting stuck in stop and go traffic will not kill your range. In fact, your range is better at low speeds than on the highway at high speeds. So it may take you longer if traffic is bad - but you won’t be in danger of losing range.
I’ve always wondered what people found so funny about that incident. I saw nothing at all humorous.
And I wonder about people who buy a PHEV and then brag about how long they’ve gone without using the gas engine. Yes, that does happen. Why are they lugging around this heavy ICE that they don’t use?
My box stock 4Runner Off Road Premium has switchable locking rear diff and switchable limited slip that is amazing. I’ve read that Toyota oversized the brake rotors to give the limited slip better control (my Pathfinder sucked at this).
I’ve been ‘Jeeping’ for 40 years. I’ve been in plenty of troublesome situations. Last winter, I did stick the 4 runner once. It’s sort of to be expected. Another time, I backed out of something that stunned me.
I don’t doubt that the Tesla does well controlling power to the wheels. But I doubt it would manage well in a foot of snow.
Understand that I’m not dissing Tesla or any other EV for their ability. But do understand that when my Wife or I look at a new vehicle one of the first things we look at is ground clearance. When we buy a new vehicle, we ditch the factory tires and either put on Blizzaks or Nokians. We run those tires year round, summers are short.
And yes, I am an ‘outlier’ for these conditions. Gonna chain up my plow truck this weekend on all four.
We’ve had 22"s of snow this October. Winter has set in. Expecting 8-14"s Sat night and Sunday
I imagine there are still places where it makes sense to use a horse to get places, and to do your ranching work.
This is great. Use your horse. But please don’t tell me that my car that I use to commute downtown and back is stupid. (not directed at anyone here)
Just read a facebook thread that was started by our utility, on the subject of the pros and cons of buying used EV’s. Some dude posted a cut’n’paste that said we would “crash the grid”. The utility company replied that they were prepared for the expected EV charging, projected to 2030, and there would be no problems.
Did the dude accept this? No he did not. Insisted that he was right, and the entire utility company was wrong. Jesus. People are fucking idiots.
Unless it’s dark and winter, and you’re running all of your lights, heated seat, steering wheel, and air. The heated air (I’ll just call it a heater, now), really drains things if you’re low. Granted, I’m thinking 8 kwh versus a car with 90 kwh, but it was enough that when I was gamifying my Fusion, I’d go to work without the heater turned on.
I don’t know about the Prius Prime, but the Chevrolet Volt will turn on the petrol engine / generator once in a while, as a function of when you last added fuel, to ensure the average age of the fuel remains within spec. It’s automatic and non-forgettable.