The absolute cheapest Tesla is $35,000 for something that’s only the size of a sedan. You can get a Toyota Corolla that’s exactly the same size for $20,000. Try again with the “not too expensive” part.
You said:
Emphasis mine. Any Tesla does at least two of the things in Euphonious Polemic’s list. Last I checked, two is greater than one.
Could be worse. You could have to replace the explosion-producing substance from an outside source every 300-500 miles!
A BMW 3 series also costs more than a Corolla. Any idea why?
Capital letters cost more that lower case?
To be fair the next sentence was
So your talking, what, mid-70s ICE vehicles at the latest? Jeez, who even knows how to work on one of those carburetor thingies anymore? I also hope you have a good body shop guy & a garage to store it in so doesn’t rust down to nothingness while waiting for said EMP attack.
I’m fully aware a BMW 3 costs more than a Corolla. How many BMWs do you see on the road compared to Corollas? That’s because the BMW is too expensive for most people for what it is, just like Teslas.
So what is the non-luxury electric car model that is road-trip capable like a Corolla and is not too expensive for what it is?
There are no econo-box road-trip EV cars right now. Nobody has ever said there was. I’m at a loss for what the point is of this argument: that the market supports more sales of $20,000 cars than $40,000 cars? Well, of course. And the market supports more sales of $40,000 cars than $150,000 cars.
But, given that the average selling price of cars is somewhere in the $35,000 range, the fact that entry-level luxury cars sell for around that price – whether ICE or EV – the idea of more people (not everyone, just more people) spending around that much to get EVs that drive better than their ICE equivalents is a very reasonable proposition.
Anecdotally, I see MORE BMWs on the road here in N.Alberta than Corollas. Strange but true. And it’s not all oil workers driving them, I’m quite sure.
I don’t know what you’re saying here? That Teslas cost too much?
Well, a Ruth’s Chris steak costs way more than a Whopper, Jr. Not everyone can afford one. Plus, you can’t eat the porterhouse while behind the wheel during a road trip like you can a burger.
Therefore, steaks are not as good.
Sure there’s steakhouses for the rich, just like there’s Tesla’s and BMWs for the rich. But Whopper Juniors are better since more people can afford them and you get so much more for your money.
I said “laden” because I think I’d already used “powered” and “driven” and I didn’t want to repeat. And because alliteration. I always allude alliterativly.
Our home backup propane generator will be installed in a couple weeks. Then we could consider an EV, which would otherwise be at the mercy of PG&E power shutoffs, the “new normal” hereabouts. How many personal EV owners have home generators, just in case?
But Whopper Juniors taste gross.
But if we are to rate things without regard to quality, guess Gatorade is better than Cotes du Rhône, amirite?
It’s up more than 50% since you posted this just nine days ago & has more than doubled this year (I mean 2020, not the last 52 weeks).
So Tesla’s valuation has gone from crazy to really crazy. BTW, anyone know if my comparison is a valid way of comparing auto manufacturers?
I don’t think it really is, because the stock price is taking into account expected future growth, not last years productivity. GM is extremely unlikely to quadruple their output in the next 5 years. Tesla might quadruple their output in 5 years.
OK, but even if Tesla quadruples its output in five years, the valuation still outstrips GM and every other car company out there.
I’ll start this post with the statement that: I like EVs, and thought about a used i3 as my last car purchase. But there’s one area that EVs do actually completely suck: Any motorsport other than a drag race. They do however, rule at drag racing. If you want to complete a 1/4 mile quickly, Tesla offers several of the cheapest routes. Dollar-for-dollar, they rule at drag racing.
Now, if you want to brake into a corner? Ooooh, that battery weight is going to be a bigger problem than it was accelerating. Turning the corner presents the same problems. Yes, Porsche and Tesla have set “record laps” at places with what were almost certainly specially prepared cars that were allowed to sacrifice their battery to generate current longer. But how about the second or third lap without letting up on the heavy discharges and using the same tires that you overheated dragging that heavy lump around the track?
The only EV that’s shown up to Car&Driver’s Lightning Lap was a P85 in 2015, supplied by an owner, not Tesla. It’s best lap time at VIR was a respectable, but non-stellar 3:17. That was the absolute best it could do, and it had cut itself to half power before the end of the lap. That lap time was far below the times set by a base Mustang and a base WRX the same year, and wide variety of less expensive cars have much better lap times at the track in other years. To be honest, for all of it’s acceleration and torque, it’s pig-heavy, and no better for motorsport than the worst SUV. No other EVs have shown up for the event, and Tesla hasn’t supplied a car themselves.
I don’t do serious motorsport with my daily driver, but I’ve done some sort of competitive event with most of the vehicles I’ve owned. The problems above mostly relate to the limited battery storage of an EV. The tires on them are undersized for their weight when it comes to going around a corner, because they’re optimized for range. The weight of the energy storage exacerbates the problem. The other half is that you have to come up with an electrical storage medium that can actually discharge (and recharge) itself quickly, repeatedly without damaging itself through heat. I even like EV-centered motorsport. Indoor electric go-karts rock, and even Formula E type racing is entertaining as hell But the electric kart would be owned by a Briggs & Stratton kart at a track. So, before they’ll become universally competitive, I’ll echo that they’re going to need yet another breakthrough in storage.
So, that’s another consideration. But, if you aren’t doing any motorsport besides drag racing in your daily driver, you probably should be looking at a hybrid, at least. Everyone I know who views “car” as “transport” and has something similar (or even a full EV) loves them. And well, if you are a drag racer, there’s an electric drag racing league that will sanction your racing habits, though you can be faster on a budget building your own EV dragster instead of ripping the tires off your Tesla. Since you don’t have to bother with recharge rates or range beyond a 1/4 mile, you can minimize your storage weight. Home built EV dragsters can be fucking amazing.
But, even the consideration of a home built EV dragster brings in its own considerations of economy and lifestyle. You might not have the money, room, time or inclination to do so. On the other hand, you might have all four. I don’t know. Who are you? I’d love to build an EV dragster myself, but nope, no enclosed garage, plus I’m in a band. Plus, I’d rather go autocrossing or time trials instead of drag racing. So, I’m not that guy.
Anyone who tells you you’re an idiot for buying the vehicle you bought probably doesn’t understand your life. Heck, I had someone kind of berate me for not buying a much more powerful ICE car than the one I did buy, because I could have easily afforded it. But, anything faster would have cost more initially, gotten worse gas mileage, required larger (more expensive and more polluting) tires to go around a corner well, and wouldn’t have really been appreciably faster (and probably less pleasurable) in my preferred motorsport.
So yeah, it’s all trade offs.
The Model 3 Performance does a lot better in maintaining performance over multiple laps. The S seems to be heat soak limited, either in the battery or motor, but they’ve improved a lot with the 3.
The stuff you mention mostly isn’t fundamental to an EV. Motorsport enthusiasts can swap in sticky tires if they want. Heat soak isn’t something that Tesla prioritized in the Model S, but they’ve improved it in the 3, and likely will improve further with the “Plaid” drivetrain, and further yet with the new Roadster. More powerful pumps, better thermal contact, bigger radiators, etc. Some of it will be improved design, some of it just spending the money on better equipment.
Anyway, people seem to be having a lot more fun with the Model 3 Perf around the track than they had with the S. It’s not necessarily the best bang for buck out there but it’s fun just by virtue of being different, and it’s still a great daily driver.