# Electrical grid and most electronics destroyed. Could it happen and how would we recover? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587 "2014-08-01T17:16:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/1 "2014-08-01T17:16:44Z")
Sometimes there are news stories about solar events which could knock out satellites and greatly damage the electrical grid. A recent story said that the Earth narrowly missed a massive coronal mass ejection back in 2012 which could have caused $2 trillion in damage and taken years to repair the electrical grid. What if there was an even more massive electrical event which globally destroyed the electrical grid and most un-hardened electronics? In addition to no electricity, things like computers, phones, TV’s, etc. would all be destroyed. Would something like that be possible? Some sort of global electrical event which destroyed electronics but left pretty much everything else alone? And if it did happen, how could we recover from that? If immediately there was no electricity and no way to repair it, it seems like things would get very bad very quickly. Anything that depends on computer chips, like a car, would not work. Only the simplest of machinery would still operate (old cars, dirt bike, etc). How could the electrical grid come back online if the computers they need to operate are destroyed? How could we fix those computers if the chip plants needed to make more computers have their computers destroyed. Food production and distribution would be extremely difficult. Water would be hard to come. Ironically, it would probably be the less developed areas which would fare the best. People living in cities would quickly run out of resources, but people living in some far away place who get water from the river and grow their own food may not notice anything even happened. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/2 "2014-08-01T19:12:11Z")
National Geographic did an article on this very topic: **[What If the Biggest Solar Storm on Record Happened Today?](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science/)** > [@](#): > > **Solar Flare Would Rupture Earth’s “Cyber Cocoon”** > > Solar storms aimed at Earth come in three stages, not all of which occur in any given storm. > > First, high-energy sunlight, mostly x-rays and ultraviolet light, ionizes Earth’s upper atmosphere, interfering with radio communications. Next comes a radiation storm, potentially dangerous to unprotected astronauts. > > Finally comes a coronal mass ejection, or CME, a slower moving cloud of charged particles that can take several days to reach Earth’s atmosphere. When a CME hits, the solar particles can interact with Earth’s magnetic field to produce powerful electromagnetic fluctuations. (Related: “Magnetic-Shield Cracks Found; Big Solar Storms Expected.”) > > … > > But the big fear is what might happen to the electrical grid, since power surges caused by solar particles could blow out giant transformers. Such transformers can take a long time to replace, especially if hundreds are destroyed at once, said Baker, who is a co-author of a National Research Council report on solar-storm risks. > > … > > “Imagine large cities without power for a week, a month, or a year,” Baker said. “The losses could be $1 to $2 trillion, and the effects could be felt for years.” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/3 "2014-08-01T20:29:07Z")
The odds are good this will happen one day. If it happened now, we would be screwed. With smart grids, distributed generation, etc… We might be better off. [Near Miss: The Solar Superstorm of July 2012](http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2014/23jul_superstorm/) From the article: > [@](#): > > In February 2014, physicist Pete Riley of Predictive Science Inc. published a paper in Space Weather entitled “On the probability of occurrence of extreme space weather events.” In it, he analyzed records of solar storms going back 50+ years. By extrapolating the frequency of ordinary storms to the extreme, he calculated the odds that a Carrington-class storm would hit Earth in the next ten years. > > The answer: 12%. > > “Initially, I was quite surprised that the odds were so high, but the statistics appear to be correct,” says Riley. “It is a sobering figure.” [The Carrington Event.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrington_Storm) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/4 "2014-08-01T21:36:25Z")
I can’t wait for the SyFy channel movie about this. But such a movie would require a villain, so let’s see - I know, a hugely wealthy owner of power-generation utilities who thinks it’s in his interest to oppose things like smart grids and distributed generation, but who ends up getting wiped out financially, and then personally destroyed by the CME as he tries to escape via his own private space ship. We get to watch as his face melts. The rest of mankind, or at least the US, is saved by the efforts of a nerdy but hot scientist and her plucky male assistant. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/5 "2014-08-01T22:40:39Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I can’t wait for the SyFy channel movie about this. But such a movie would require a villain, so let’s see - I know, a hugely wealthy owner of power-generation utilities who thinks it’s in his interest to oppose things like smart grids and distributed generation, but who ends up getting wiped out financially, and then personally destroyed by the CME as he tries to escape via his own private space ship. We get to watch as his face melts. > > The rest of mankind, or at least the US, is saved by the efforts of a nerdy but hot scientist and her plucky male assistant. Don’t forget…the nerdy guy that has to know this is coming before everyone and will stock up on all kinds of survival shit before “The Event” Goldblum: “No no no. We don’t need that we can’t use that come on think use your heads.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/6 "2014-08-01T22:49:48Z")
Even assuming the mother of all lightning storms or whatever that melt down the lines, transformers and generators, the precious raw materials won’t go anywhere. It would be a national program of recovering the damaged gear and running it through recycling system to create new components. Not that it wouldn’t be a decade of Depression-beating economic hardship, but we could rebuild it all from its own ruins… and do it better. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/7 "2014-08-02T10:45:42Z")
We discussed this on a U.K. message board and it was noted that the U.K. power grid is significantly better protected than America’s. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/8 "2014-08-02T14:03:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > We discussed this on a U.K. message board and it was noted that the U.K. power grid is significantly better protected than America’s. Well, of course! Those would be the crown joules… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/9 "2014-08-02T15:59:46Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Well, of course! Those would be the crown joules… 😛 Watt the hell?! ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/10 "2014-08-03T03:55:31Z")
> [@](#): > > “Imagine large cities without power for a week, a month, or a year,” Baker said. “The losses could be $1 to $2 trillion, and the effects could be felt for years.” Isn’t it interesting how the metric of all events is dollar value? The news value of a ten thousand deaths in a cyclone in Bangladesh or trwenty deaths in a blizzard in Northern Europe are measured by the dollar value of the earning power and wealth of the people who are killed. A month-long power outage in Kinshasa wouldn’t even be mentioned in World News Daily tabloids. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/11 "2014-08-03T22:09:57Z")
I guess the most important thing is what happens to the food supply. If farming equipment survives or can be repaired quickly we can avoid starving while we fix everything. Just the power grids would probably not the worst thing, as you can use generators. I’m pretty sure people will figure out how to use hybrid cars to power their house fast enough. If it’s everything electronic _and_ world wide then we’d basically have to recreate 50 years worth of technology from scratch all the while avoiding starvation and disease. That would be a big problem. But would it be world wide? Wouldn’t a CME only hit the part of the planet where it’s day? And _all_ electronics? I’m sure many important facilities (chip fabs…) are well protected, and lots of random stuff will survive by accident because it happens to be built in such a way that currents won’t be induced easily (is that the way CMEs affect electronics?) or they’re shielded inside a metal structure or under ground. If it’s only half the world then replacements can be flown in from the other half and recovery would be quick. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/12 "2014-08-03T22:35:20Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Anything that depends on computer chips, like a car, would not work. Only the simplest of machinery would still operate … Yeah, I am not really sure that would be the case. If a device is not dirt-grounded and has the right kind of shell (which I think most car computers probably do), a solar event is probably not going to be a problem. Of course, your car will be good for the distance it has in its tank, until they get the gas stations back on the grid. > [@iljitsch](#): > > But would it be world wide? Wouldn’t a CME only hit the part of the planet where it’s day? A CME is a fairly slow-moving fluid (plasma), so unless it just grazes the planet, it will impact a lot more than the day side. Most likely, the flow would be across the Earth’s orbital track, so first impact would be at 6am as the planet plunges into the stream. Then it would wrap around the planet over the course of a day, depending on the size and shape of the stream. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/13 "2014-08-04T13:34:35Z")
Assuming that the event would be catastrophic enough that it would take decades to recover from it, the most interesting question might be how we would avoid mistakes that were made the first time through. Consider the analogy of the city destroyed by a weather event, and how it gets rebuilt. The urban renewal accomplishes what would have otherwise been impossible, and a generation later, the storm can be looked back upon as a blessing in disguise. Similarly, a catastrophe of sufficient magnitude could set us back to a new starting point at which, for example, transportation could skip the fossil fuel era and restart with a clean slate of clean and efficient vehicles. Much like the development of telephony in the third world, where landlines were skipped over completely, and undeveloped nations went straight from jungle drums to cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/14 "2014-08-04T14:28:14Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Well, of course! Those would be the crown joules… 😛 > [@74westy](#): > > Watt the hell?! Ohm my God you two are revolting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/15 "2014-08-04T18:07:39Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > > [@74westy](#): > > > > > [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > > > > > Well, of course! Those would be the crown joules… 😛 > > > > Watt the hell?! > > Ohm my God you two are revolting. your resistance is, of course, futile. you will be inducted into the order of _Thank God It’s Faraday_ despite your reluctance. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/16 "2014-08-04T18:24:30Z")
That was so painful it really Hertz. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/17 "2014-08-04T19:26:33Z")
A nuclear explosion in the upper atmosphere could easily do it. (And this was the plot premise of the TV show _Dark Angel_ some years ago) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/18 "2014-08-05T15:33:58Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > no way to repair it, That’s a big assumption. Does this solar storm cause all of societies knowledge to disappear as well? We know how to create power plants from greenfield conditions, we also know how to repair them when they break. It wouldn’t take decades for this to happen. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/19 "2014-08-05T15:48:04Z")
I may be mistaken, but why would chips and other component parts not attached to the electric grid be damaged? I though the way an EMP works was by energizing the power grid and burning out any delicate, unprotected components. Would cars be effected? IIRC, a car is insulated from the ground by it’s tires and it’s frame acts like a natural Faraday cage. Ergo, you don’t get out of it during a lightning storm. An EMP is not a magical force that renders all electrical devices inoperable forever and erase the memory of how to generate electricity. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587/20 "2014-08-05T16:09:23Z")
wasn’t this the premise of “revolution” ? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-grid-and-most-electronics-destroyed-could-it-happen-and-how-would-we-recover/694587.md?page=2)