# Electrical Panel Problem **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251 "2010-09-01T13:35:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/21 "2010-09-01T18:30:14Z")
the QO panel has the odds going down the left and evens down the right. breakers 1 and 2 are on the same leg. breakers 3 and 4 are on the same leg. breakers vertically alternate legs. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/22 "2010-09-01T20:14:41Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > > [@elecwoman](#): > > > > #1&3 breaker(50amp) #9 breaker(20amp) #13&15(30amp,2-pole) These are the breakers that control the problem areas. > > You are losing one of your lines somewhere. Her statement: > [@](#): > > 1.) When power goes off and I plug in the stove the power comes back on. tends to confirm this. Plugging in the stove (a 250v connection to both lines) somehow allows power to backfeed and get those circuits live again. This is seriously messed up & dangerous. Call an electrician! If you need to find a reliable one, ask your neighbors, check with the neighborhood association, look online in Angies’s List, etc., or at worst, just get a firm that’s bee in business a long time (is there a label on the box indicating who originally installed it?). But get one soon. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/23 "2010-09-01T20:35:27Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the QO panel has the odds going down the left and evens down the right. breakers 1 and 2 are on the same leg. breakers 3 and 4 are on the same leg. breakers vertically alternate legs. If that is true then a broken line wouldn’t do it. Do you know if the neutrals all connect to a single bus bar in this panel or if there are separate bus bars for each side? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/24 "2010-09-01T21:19:33Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the QO panel has the odds going down the left and evens down the right. breakers 1 and 2 are on the same leg. breakers 3 and 4 are on the same leg. breakers vertically alternate legs. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > If that is true then a broken line wouldn’t do it. > > Do you know if the neutrals all connect to a single bus bar in this panel or if there are separate bus bars for each side? i don’t find the exact model. a close match on the number is an obsolete 100A 20 space panel. so maybe a single neutral bus. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/25 "2010-09-01T22:23:51Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > > [@Chefguy](#): > > > > Loose main lug connection? That sizzling noise sounds like this is the problem. This is not something you want to attempt to correct yourself, as it can’t be shut off by you. Call your local power company or a local electrician. > > Huh? Remove the meter from the can. Note to self: Do not, under any circumstances, follow any advice - on any topic - from Balthisar. mmm ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/26 "2010-09-01T22:57:12Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Note to self: Do not, under any circumstances, follow any advice - on any topic - from Balthisar. Such as my current advice: “Everyone pay attention to **Mean Mr. Mustard** ” 😛 Actually a quick Google search seems to indicate that you guys could be right, and I see a lot of suggestions to call the power company to have them remove the meter. So I’m going to threadjack a bit: “why”? On no fewer than five occasions I’ve had licensed electricians remove the meter from the can without disconnecting the main service from the transformer. And once it was an actual Edison electrician out there to bridge the main to a second meter (which she did hot, freaking me out a little bit). It was never pulled out while under load. In fact the only time I’ve ever had to call the power company was for a service panel upgrade in my previous house (obviously the source side of the can was still hot), and once when they replaced the main cable from the transformer (which is logical). As a consequence of my observations, I’ve pulled my meter in my current house twice, and each time after the fact, I called Edison to let them know to come back out and replace the seal. The only danger I could possibly foresee is pulling the meter under a heavy load (arcing) or replacing it under a load. Or doing something stupid like touching the hot terminals with the meter off. Hence I’m genuinely curious: what’s the big deal? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/27 "2010-09-01T23:29:22Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Hence I’m genuinely curious: what’s the big deal? I once watched a doctor perform heart surgery and even read a book on how to do it correctly. I assume most people wouldn’t take issue with me performing heart surgery right? As simple as pulling a meter socket may be or may seem to be it is something to be left to professionals. Us electricians after spending well over 8000 hours on our licenses just may have learned a thing or two the average homeowner does not. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/28 "2010-09-01T23:39:30Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > > [@Balthisar](#): > > > > Hence I’m genuinely curious: what’s the big deal? > > I once watched a doctor perform heart surgery and even read a book on how to do it correctly. I assume most people wouldn’t take issue with me performing heart surgery right? > > As simple as pulling a meter socket may be or may seem to be it is something to be left to professionals. Us electricians after spending well over 8000 hours on our licenses just may have learned a thing or two the average homeowner does not. 8000? Rookie. It’s 10000 in Ohio. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/29 "2010-09-01T23:40:06Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > > [@Balthisar](#): > > > > Hence I’m genuinely curious: what’s the big deal? > > I once watched a doctor perform heart surgery and even read a book on how to do it correctly. I assume most people wouldn’t take issue with me performing heart surgery[,] right? You don’t already work with electrical systems. Oh, wait, below you say you do; that’s that’s not a good comparison. Well, I do work with power and electrical systems. But doctors that _do_ perform heart surgeries always do it for a first time, and presumably read a lot of books prior to doing so. So that’s a more appropriate comparison. > [@](#): > > As simple as pulling a meter socket may be or may seem to be it is something to be left to professionals. [We] electricians after spending well over 8000 hours on our licenses just may have learned a thing or two the average homeowner does not. So, with your 8000 hours, you don’t _have_ an answer, other than you’re better than me so I best shut up? :rolleyes: (On a serious note, I truly don’t doubt that you may have learned a thing or two more than have I, but what’s the point of asking a question if your answer is so stupid and worthless?) ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/30 "2010-09-01T23:46:57Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > So, with your 8000 hours, you don’t _have_ an answer, other than you’re better than me so I best shut up? :rolleyes: except for the part were I answered the question earlier in the thread? [QUOTE=Boytyperanma] That’s high on my list of things that are a bad idea for homeowners. It may not be legal for them to do so. It’s extremely expensive if they manage to break it. Not much prevents someone from hitting those lugs while removing the meter or while it’s off. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/31 "2010-09-01T23:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Such as my current advice: “Everyone pay attention to Mean Mr. Mustard” lol ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/32 "2010-09-01T23:49:29Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > 8000? Rookie. > > It’s 10000 in Ohio. 😃 I think MA is 10000 as well 8000 is the hours working under a licensed electrician then 2000 hours class time in addition to any time spent studying for the test and taking it. I wasn’t sure on the total class time so I went with the low estimate of 8000. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/33 "2010-09-02T00:25:51Z")
Either way, the professional licensed electrician knows more than an unlicensed amateur. I have considerable experience with low volatage and high voltage electronics, but I won’t stick my hand inside an open electrical service that is hot. Another note: Whether or not an electrician or the electrical utility company can service a meter is usually up to the utility. My experience in New York and Rhode Island is that the utility doesn’t mind in the case of an emergency. I have a friend working for National Grid, so I haven’t worried about it lately. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/34 "2010-09-02T00:52:46Z")
> [@elecwoman](#): > > Strange things that’s been happening: > > 1.) When power goes off and I plug in the stove the power comes back on. > 2.) plug in microwave- power went off > 3.) Started in one room and moved to several rooms. Along with possable panel problems with the hot leads I would question the neutrals. You house may be older that what I am use to but. At my meter is a main when that is turned off the panel for the house should be dead. I said should. I never go in without testing. ---
**Author:** ![elecwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@elecwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elecwoman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/35 "2010-09-02T13:23:32Z")
> [@elecwoman](#): > > I’m having problems with my electricity going off and on at will. Here are some of the symtoms: > > 1.) Power going off and on. > 2.)All breakers on one side of panel having problems. Other side is fine. > 3.)The 50amp breaker was making sizzle sound, so I replaced it only to have another breaker on same side start sizzling. > 4.)No breakers are tripping when power goes out. > > Questions: > > 1.)Is it my main breaker? > 2.)Is it a loose power wire on one side? > 3.)Is it a loose neutral wire? > 4.)Should I have the POCO shut off power before checking for loose wires? > Things I have done so far to try and fix the problem: > > 1.)Had the POCO check outside for problems. (No problem found) > 2.)Replaced all breakers on the problem side. > 3.) Checked wall outlets for bad connections. > > What should my readings be when checking the voltage on the main breaker? > > Thank You in advance to all who answers my thread! I’m a single mom with not a lot of money to hire someone to do this for me! **NOTE:** To all who are concerned about my safety, Thank You, and rest assured I will not put my hands on anything without the power shut off first, by the POCO. The POCO seems to think it is one line to the main not connected good. I have not had any luck with getting an electrician out here to look at it. Of the ones that answered the phone, none called me back like they said they would.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/36 "2010-09-02T13:50:07Z")
> [@elecwoman](#): > > > [@elecwoman](#): > > > > I’m having problems with my electricity going off and on at will. Here are some of the symtoms: > > > > 1.) Power going off and on. > > 2.)All breakers on one side of panel having problems. Other side is fine. > > 3.)The 50amp breaker was making sizzle sound, so I replaced it only to have another breaker on same side start sizzling. > > 4.)No breakers are tripping when power goes out. > > > > Questions: > > > > 1.)Is it my main breaker? > > 2.)Is it a loose power wire on one side? > > 3.)Is it a loose neutral wire? > > 4.)Should I have the POCO shut off power before checking for loose wires? > > Things I have done so far to try and fix the problem: > > > > 1.)Had the POCO check outside for problems. (No problem found) > > 2.)Replaced all breakers on the problem side. > > 3.) Checked wall outlets for bad connections. > > > > What should my readings be when checking the voltage on the main breaker? > > > > Thank You in advance to all who answers my thread! I’m a single mom with not a lot of money to hire someone to do this for me! > > **NOTE:** To all who are concerned about my safety, Thank You, and rest assured I will not put my hands on anything without the power shut off first, by the POCO. > The POCO seems to think it is one line to the main not connected good. > I have not had any luck with getting an electrician out here to look at it. Of the ones that answered the phone, none called me back like they said they would.:smack: Which is what I said back in post #2. HAH! Suck on that! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/37 "2010-09-02T17:58:01Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > > [@Balthisar](#): > > > > So, with your 8000 hours, you don’t _have_ an answer, other than you’re better than me so I best shut up? :rolleyes: > > except for the part were I answered the question earlier in the thread? > > [QUOTE=Boytyperanma] > That’s high on my list of things that are a bad idea for homeowners. It may not be legal for them to do so. It’s extremely expensive if they manage to break it. Not much prevents someone from hitting those lugs while removing the meter or while it’s off. [/QUOTE] Oh. I didn’t see those as compelling reasons. I thought maybe there was a procedure or safety precaution or something that we average homeowners might not know about. I guess my only response for reasons not to do it are: it’s legal here. Meter cans are free (literally: prior to upgrading my service, I just went to the Edison warehouse, and they just gave it to me.). I suppose if one were careless and broke the meter, the power company may want reimbursement, but that goes for clumsy people breaking anything. I guess I _can_ see your point that someone who may not want to change his own light switch probably shouldn’t be fiddling with a meter, but no one’s mentioned any above average risks for reasonably skilled, non-journeymen people, either. For the record, and re-reading my original comment I can understand the confusion, I _wasn’t_ suggesting that the OP take our her meter herself. I _was_ merely commenting on **Chefguy** ’s comment: “Loose main lug connection? … This is not something you want to attempt to correct yourself, as it can’t be shut off by you.” The difference being “can’t be shut off” and “can’t be shut off by _you_.” So, my apologies, but if there’s still a reason for _me_ (or similar people) not to remove my meter, then I’d still like to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![elecwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@elecwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elecwoman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/38 "2010-09-05T01:45:25Z")
\*\*Question:\*\*If one of my power lines going into the main breaker was loose, wouldn’t I be getting lower voltage readings on the breakers this line supplies power to? All voltage readings are good for all breakers. I think it’s in my 240V line to my range(has really old wires) and when the power goes out and I plug in my stove the power comes back on(It comes back on every time I do this). ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/39 "2010-09-05T02:09:59Z")
> [@elecwoman](#): > > \*\*Question:\*\*If one of my power lines going into the main breaker was loose, wouldn’t I be getting lower voltage readings on the breakers this line supplies power to? > > All voltage readings are good for all breakers. > I think it’s in my 240V line to my range(has really old wires) and when the power goes out and I plug in my stove the power comes back on(It comes back on every time I do this). Not if it’s an intermittent open. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251/40 "2010-09-05T02:23:46Z")
> [@elecwoman](#): > > \*\*Question:\*\*If one of my power lines going into the main breaker was loose, wouldn’t I be getting lower voltage readings on the breakers this line supplies power to? > > All voltage readings are good for all breakers. > I think it’s in my 240V line to my range(has really old wires) and when the power goes out and I plug in my stove the power comes back on(It comes back on every time I do this). you might detect voltage with no load and a marginal connection. the marginal connection might only become evident under a load. if the neutral line was marginal/intermittent then having the range plugged in might bring power to a bad 118V circuit. you would have three incoming power wires, two that go to main breaker, one to neutral bus. how you have a grounding wire depends on age and configuration of your system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrical-panel-problem/552251.md?page=3)