# Electrocution of my sister **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 9, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545 "2002-10-09T15:11:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ShadowWarrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7993a0/32.png) [@ShadowWarrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowWarrior)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/21 "2002-10-10T15:04:27Z")
Aside from adding my vote for the visual aid via webcam, I’d like to put forward the theory that she could avoid any danger by fixing the power cord so it would pull out if the laptop fell. This would depend on how full the bath is, where the power supply is, and a whole load of other things, which we could work out if only we had some sort of picture… ---
**Author:** ![neisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4bbf92/32.png) [@neisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neisha)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/22 "2002-10-10T15:06:32Z")
\ ***I guess my sister is still alive and this is what she says…** \* > [@](#): > > Well, I’m sitting here in the tub reading these responses. Some of them are really a riot huh? > **Nurse Carmen** mentioned the AC adapter and that caused me to pick up the AC adapter that is here on the bathroom floor and read the back of it which said, “Risk of electric shock, use in dry location only”. I’m glad to know that because it will cause me to be more careful about that and not leave it on the floor where water can get to it, when I jump out of the tub, without drying off, and run naked to the kitchen for a coke or bite to eat. So thank Carmen for me. > **Mangetout** caused me to read the output and input voltage and it says input 100-240V and output says 16V - 3.75A, whatever that means. Maybe he could research that a little and get back to us? 😉 > **Finagle** mentioned getting a GFI (ground fault interrupter) circuit. Is that something I can pick up at Radio Shack or is it something that an electrician has to install? Ask him to let us know, alright? > I don’t know what **Crafterman** is talking about when he says “isolation,” but his name sound like he might know what he’s talking about. > Tell **Bindlestiff** that I just got a digital camera, so a picture will be coming shortly. > **Lost4life** is totally wrong about my possibly not liking all the men picturing me naked in the tub. Tell him (her?) I couldn’t be happier. 😃 > **Milton** has some good advice and I have no objection. > Noticed no one mentioned whether or not the humidity was bad for the computer. Believe it or not, my main concern is the strength of the board and I keep testing it to make sure it is strong. If someone said I had to give this up, I’d die. Little pun there. But, the concerns and comments do make me more aware and I will be careful. And I will look into getting the GFI. Between my family (my sister, **neisha** is my most favorite person in a the world, by the way) and **Finagle** , you may have saved my life. Thanks you guys. Got to get studying. Have a big Biology test tomorrow. Hey that site is pretty neat huh? Wonder if I could post any Biology questions. ---
**Author:** ![oktomorrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3e96dc/32.png) [@oktomorrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oktomorrow)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/23 "2002-10-10T16:22:56Z")
“andy\_fl,” in offering a suggestion to “Neisha,” prefaces it with “if you are so phobic”----phobic means “suffering from an irrational fear”—I don’t see anything phobic about Neisha’s concern about her sister. I’d say her concerns are anything but irrational. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/24 "2002-10-10T17:59:53Z")
16V - 3.75A - definately enough to kill. Now the question becomes - would the power unit short so quickly that there would be minimal transmission to the user? I’d advise using the machine only when dry. What’s the power supply of a PDA? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/25 "2002-10-10T18:34:32Z")
happyheathen, care to provide a cite for that? I don’t think that 16V is enough to kill… Car batteries are 12V and can throw out over 400A but their terminals are left exposed, and I’ve never personally heard of someone being killed by a car battery. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/26 "2002-10-10T18:44:18Z")
Hmm. And there was I thinking this thread would be about someone planning to bump off their sis. (Of course, it could be that that’s just what it is…) Anyone, I’d be more worried about all the steam from the bath trashing the laptop (not to mention drips from the hands into the keyboardm etc). Humid atmospheres plus electronics don’t generally mix too well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/27 "2002-10-10T19:13:10Z")
A GFI (or GFCI, the acronym varies) is a wall outlet, which would replace the wall outlets already in the bathroom. If your outlets have a couple of buttons in the middle of them marked “test” and “reset”, then you already have them. If not, it’ll take an electrician about half an hour to install them for you, and you can probably get a discount on your insurance which would more than make up for the nominal cost. Regardless of your aquatic web-surfing habits, it’s a very good idea to get GFIs in your bathroom, kitchen, outdoor outlets, and other wet places. **Anthracite** , if you somehow manage to grab the hot and return wires for the circuit, then so far as the GFI is concerned, your body is just another appliance. They’re there to protect you from contact with hot and ground, a much more common danger. Also note that the safety of a GFI does depend on it working properly, which is not an absolute gaurantee. It’s all about reducing risk. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/28 "2002-10-11T00:51:05Z")
how big is the bathroom? perhaps a voice program, so no wet typing, and the laptop out of the direct line of water in the tub? there are these rather cool scooter table things. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/29 "2002-10-11T02:43:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > \*\*…there is a GFCI in all bathroooms (OSHA Regulation - GFCIs are provided for any outlet within 6 feet of sink, tub, etc.) \*\* Okay, _ideally_ there would be a GFCI in every bathroom. In the real world, of course, things are less than ideal. I’ve lived in two houses over the past twenty years. Both of them were built before 1970 and neither of them had GFCIs in the bathroom or kitchen. We’ve installed them in one bathroom (the one where we have something plugged into an outlet) and by the kitchen sink, and we intend to get them into the other bathrooms eventually, but time does go by and OSHA hasn’t been around to check lately. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/30 "2002-10-14T15:32:39Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* On a related question - I know what they are supposed to do, but is it true that if a GFCI is working properly, you cannot reasonably be shocked?_\* You _can_ get shocked from a properly-operating GFCI, albeit you’d have to work at it. To do so, you’d have to: a) make contact with the hot _and_ neutral conductors (as explained by **Chronos** ), and b) remain isolated from earth ground. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* If you put two GFCIs in series on the same circuit, does it follow a standard joint probability rule for determining the likelihood of failure?_\* I’m not sure what you’re asking here. It’s not a problem to wire a GFCI “downstream” from another GFCI. During a ground fault, the GFCI that has the lower trip point (or the GFCI that has a faster relay) will trip first. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andy\_fl \* > \*\* Neisha, if you are very concerned and rich and so phobic, buy an isolation transformer. You will not get a shock, if you touch a terminal of this and water. However, u’ll get a shock if you take wires out and mess the way, anthra did. \*\* Very true, but if the laptop is using an external AC adapter it will contain an isolation transformer. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neisha \* > \*\* Nurse Carmen mentioned the AC adapter and that caused me to pick up the AC adapter that is here on the bathroom floor and read the back of it which said, “Risk of electric shock, use in dry location only”. \*\* The warning is correct. Keep the AC adapter away from the tub. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neisha \* > \*\* it says input 100-240V and output says 16V - 3.75A, whatever that means. \*\* Not all that important for this discussion. However, it does mean it’s a switching power supply. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by happyheathen \* > \*\* 16V - 3.75A - definately enough to kill. \*\* Um, nope. Try again. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\* if you somehow manage to grab the hot and return wires for the circuit, then so far as the GFI is concerned, your body is just another appliance. \*\* This is a true statement _if you’re isolated from earth ground_. As explained above, if you touch the hot and neutral _and_ you’re making contact w/ earth ground the GFCI will break the circuit. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InternetLegend \* > \*\* we intend to get them into the other bathrooms eventually \*\* Not smart. A 120VAC/15A GFCI can be had for $7 and takes a whopping 20 minutes to install. It’s the cheapest life insurance policy you’ll ever buy. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/31 "2002-10-14T15:58:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > **You _can_ get shocked from a properly-operating GFCI, albeit you’d have to work at it. To do so, you’d have to: a) make contact with the hot _and_ neutral conductors (as explained by Chronos), and b) remain isolated from earth ground.** OK, let me re-phrase my question. If I form a ground for the hot wire, on a circuit with a GFCI, will I even _feel_ a shock, or will it switch the circuit open before I even feel it? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/32 "2002-10-14T16:58:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > OK, let me re-phrase my question. If I form a ground for the hot wire, on a circuit with a GFCI, will I even _feel_ a shock, or will it switch the circuit open before I even feel it? \*\* A GFCI has a trip point between 4 mA and 6 mA and will de-energize the relay in about 50 ms. Would you feel anything? I don’t know. My guess is that you would feel something. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/33 "2002-10-14T17:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by neisha \* > My sister is addicted to the bath tub and can easily stay in a warm tub with the water trickling an entire day. She lets out water every now and then to keep her water level at her preferred place approx. 3" above her belly button.:rolleyes: Is this one of her phases she is going through or have you considered possible electocution is the least of her worries? ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/34 "2002-10-14T19:00:37Z")
Some may have GFCI plugs and not know it. In one house I lived in, the kitchen had one GFCI outlet, but all the outlets were wired to it. When any one of the outlets faulted, the GFCI blew. In my current ( 😉 ) home, the GFCI’s are all in the main breaker box. Some of the breakers have the “Push to test” and “Reset” buttons there on the breakers. Not really very convenient, but there it is. Now about that webcam… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545/35 "2002-10-14T22:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Drum God \* > **Some may have GFCI plugs and not know it. In one house I lived in, the kitchen had one GFCI outlet, but all the outlets were wired to it. When any one of the outlets faulted, the GFCI blew.** That’s a very common configuration. Of course, the outlets “downstream” from the GFCI outlet are _supposed_ to sport “GFCI protected” stickers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electrocution-of-my-sister/131545.md?page=1)