# Electronic voting machines cheat another Democrat out of an election **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007 "2006-08-09T15:07:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/41 "2006-08-10T00:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] …Well said. There is nothing to be gained by turning htis into a partisan issue. Election security is in everyone’s interest. [/QUOTE] Sadly, no. Or only so far as it goes. Election security is clearly in everyone’s interest, since confidence in election results is very important. But it isn’t as important as election _access_. Our current hodge-podge of local standards and local funding leaves residents of less affluent districts at a disadvantage. If this disadvantage were relieved, many more less affluent voters would vote. There is a party that would find this disagreeable. Starts with an “R”. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/42 "2006-08-10T00:55:24Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don’t remember any Republicans or Independants losing an election and blaming electronic voting. [/QUOTE] You will as soon as a CEO of an electronic voting machine maker starts campaigning/fundraising for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/43 "2006-08-10T01:09:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I guess you could interpret what I was saying as “partisan sniping,” but the fact is, no one has provided a cite that shows a Republican blaming a loss on electronic voting machines. So, why DO these complaints only come from one side? I never said the Democrats “cry fraud every time,” only that they seem to do so from time to time, and the Republicans don’t. [/QUOTE] Right. You must have a short and/or selective memory. Don’t remember the kafuffle over the 2004 Washington gubenatorial race, huh? [Here, straight from the Republicans’ mouths.](http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/003857.html) Considering the clusterfuck of 2000, I don’t see how any United States citizen can possibly be faulted for wanting to ensure every voter has his or her vote counted. Pretending everything is a-ok in voterland is the utmost in civic negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/44 "2006-08-10T01:42:05Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don’t remember any Republicans or Independants losing an election and blaming electronic voting. [/QUOTE] That’s because, since we started using electronic voting systems, Republicans haven’t been losing many elections. _ **Coincidence?!** _ :dubious: Well, yeah, probably, but the point is still valid: not many Republicans have been in a position to claim they were cheated out of a victory, lately. If they were getting routed in the polls as often as the Democrats have been, that might be different. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/45 "2006-08-10T03:20:12Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] That’s because, since we started using electronic voting systems, Republicans haven’t been losing many elections. [/QUOTE] Other than the Presidency Republicans have been consistently winning elections since 1994, long before electronic voting booths were even a figment of somebody’s imagination. It is indeed a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/46 "2006-08-10T03:55:14Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Other than the Presidency Republicans have been consistently winning elections since 1994, long before electronic voting booths were even a figment of somebody’s imagination. It is indeed a coincidence. [/QUOTE] Now, now, Airman Doors. Just because Republicans won elections prior to the widespread use of Deibold (“I promise to deliver Ohio to the Republican Party!”) electronic voting machines is not any kind of proof that they haven’t used them since their advent. It’s just shows that they A) won by using OTHER means of electoral fraud or B) didn’t use electoral fraud prior to the advent of Diebold machines. Believe me, if the shit that has gone down with regard to electronic voting were consistently benefitting Democrats instead of Republicans, there would be calls for armed revolution from the right wing media every fucking day. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/47 "2006-08-10T04:10:47Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Now, now, Airman Doors. Just because Republicans won elections prior to the widespread use of Deibold (“I promise to deliver Ohio to the Republican Party!”) electronic voting machines is not any kind of proof that they haven’t used them since their advent. It’s just shows that they A) won by using OTHER means of electoral fraud or B) didn’t use electoral fraud prior to the advent of Diebold machines. [/QUOTE] Oh, give me a break. Any party that once counted LBJ and Richard Daley (the elder and the younger) among its members has some balls saying that the Republicans have won consistently because of voter fraud. You may have a case (an unproven one, although allegations abound in the uber-reliable blogosphere) with the electronic machines, but to say that Republicans historically only win because of cheating is asinine, especially considering the 40-year stranglehold the Democrats had over the Congress. How many graveyards were raided in the name of the Democrats over that time? See, I can make stuff up too. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/48 "2006-08-10T04:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] You may have a case (an unproven one, although allegations abound in the uber-reliable blogosphere) with the electronic machines, [/quote] Yah, that stuff at [blackbox.org](http://blackbox.org) is SOOOO much less convincing than hand-waving and eye-rolling. All that research and data and stuff that’s barely equal to a Republican’s lifted eyebrow… > [@](#): > > but to say that Republicans historically only win because of cheating is asinine, especially considering the 40-year stranglehold the Democrats had over the Congress. I didn’t say Republicans only win because of cheating, in fact one of the options I listed is that they win without cheating. I was just pointing out that your dismissal of the Republican victories and the advent of Diebold machines as a coincidence was logically unsound. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/49 "2006-08-10T08:13:04Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] This is akin to complaining about officiating after a sports team loses a game. Regardless of whether or not the officials actually made mistakes, the losing team looks like a bunch of sore losers. The thing is, the democrats have had some crushing loses and they’ve complained about the officiating, so they look like sore losers. I imagine if the Republicans had lost those elections in similar fashion, and said similar things, they would now have that stigma instead. [/QUOTE] Look at Washington’s last election for governor when the King County election board was caught marking on **paper** ballots due to a state law allowing them to clarify the “intent of the voter” ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/50 "2006-08-10T08:20:14Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Sadly, no. Or only so far as it goes. Election security is clearly in everyone’s interest, since confidence in election results is very important. But it isn’t as important as election _access_. Our current hodge-podge of local standards and local funding leaves residents of less affluent districts at a disadvantage. If this disadvantage were relieved, many more less affluent voters would vote. There is a party that would find this disagreeable. Starts with an “R”. [/QUOTE] Ummmmmm . . . in most states it is left to the **county** to determine voting methods, “intent of the voter” standards, machinery, etc. If Bush v. Gore was truly indicative of determining “the intent of the voter”, it was the Democrat-controlled counties that were denying voters their rights with such a clusterf\*\*k of a system that the count could only be accurate with a hand-recount and constantly changing standards. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/51 "2006-08-10T12:44:52Z")
I’ve never been able to fathom out why Americans don’t simply adopt the system we have. Piece of paper with all candidates for a particular ward named on it. You put a X against the one you want to vote for, put ballot paper in box. After voting closes they are counted. The one with most Xs wins…simple. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/52 "2006-08-10T14:13:11Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] I’ve never been able to fathom out why Americans don’t simply adopt the system we have. Piece of paper with all candidates for a particular ward named on it. You put a X against the one you want to vote for, put ballot paper in box. After voting closes they are counted. The one with most Xs wins…simple. [/QUOTE] Because technology has advanced quite a bit in the last few hundred years. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/53 "2006-08-10T14:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Well, one logical explanation would be that fraud is only perpetrated by the other side. [/QUOTE] I think we all know that’s not true. > [@](#): > > But if I felt the urge to suggest that, I’d ask myself if partisan arguments were necessary, when we probably all agree that security in voting machines is a good idea. Yes. If I never had to heard one more thing (from either side) about fraud, I would be thrilled. OF COURSE, every effort should be made to be sure that elections are run on the up & up. > [@](#): > > And can’t we also agree that Cynthia McKinney is a whackjob, and we’re lucky to have her gone, without blaming an entire political party for her? Yes, the less of her we see, the better. Lately, I just have a bad taste in my mouth towards the Democratic party (which, incidentally, I have been registered as and have voted for my entire life until…well, let’s just say until recently), which has intensified greatly recently due to local events here in Chicago. > [@](#): > > I guess this is what I get for reading a political thread around here . . . You are right…this is why I tend to avoid them, too. > [@](#): > > Well said. There is nothing to be gained by turning htis into a partisan issue. Election security is in everyone’s interest. That’s true, and I actually came in to this thread this morning to take back the “partisan sniping.” Personally, I believe that politics is a dirty business, and people in charge of elections should be watched like hawks, whether R or D. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/54 "2006-08-10T14:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=choie] Right. You must have a short and/or selective memory. Don’t remember the kafuffle over the 2004 Washington gubenatorial race, huh? [Here, straight from the Republicans’ mouths.](http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/003857.html) [/QUOTE] To be quite honest, I really don’t think I have ever heard of this particular controversy. How did it come out in the end…DID dead people vote? > [@](#): > > Considering the clusterfuck of 2000, I don’t see how any United States citizen can possibly be faulted for wanting to ensure every voter has his or her vote counted. Pretending everything is a-ok in voterland is the utmost in civic negligence. I never said everything was a-ok in voterland. I have lived in Chicago my entire life, for goodness’ sake. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/55 "2006-08-10T15:03:42Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Because technology has advanced quite a bit in the last few hundred years. [/QUOTE] Yes it has but it seems that USA voting tech. is a tad lacking 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/56 "2006-08-10T16:40:05Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Because technology has advanced quite a bit in the last few hundred years. [/QUOTE] Human nature, on the other hand, has not changed at all. My distrust of the electronic voting devices being rolled out comes not from fear or unfamiliarity with computer technology. Just the opposite: I am an IT professional who works with high-tech systems every day. I know from direct experience that the more complicated something is, the easier it is to mess with it. And what is being put in place to handle voting is totally unacceptable from a security and auditing standpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/57 "2006-08-10T16:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Maybe my memory is failing me, but I don’t remember any Republicans or Independants losing an election and blaming electronic voting. [/QUOTE] There was one just yestarday. > [@](#): > > [Kansas City Star](http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15235554.htm) > JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. - Platte County Auditor Sandra Thomas declared victory Wednesday in the Republican primary for state auditor, but fellow contender Rep. Jack Jackson vowed to request a recount. > > Thomas led Jackson 86,681 to 84,963 - a margin of less than 1 percentage point - in a five-way GOP race that attracted almost 300,000 votes statewide, according to complete but unofficial results. > > While fielding congratulatory calls, Thomas began preparing Wednesday for a Nov. 7 general election match against Buchanan County Auditor Susan Montee, an easy victor in Tuesday’s Democratic primary. > > But Jackson, of Wildwood, refused to concede. > > “I am going to ask for a recount,” he told The Associated Press. “I’m not denying anyone a victory, I just want to make sure that what’s mine is mine. I want to make sure that if it’s this close that the vote count is accurate.” > > When races are decided by less than 1 percentage point, state law allows the second-place candidate to request a recount. That can occur after the results officially are certified. > > Jackson and Thomas had yet to talk to each other Wednesday. Thomas said she didn’t begrudge him seeking a recount but added: “We’re going to start campaigning to win in November.” > > Jackson cited the prevalence of new electronic voting equipment in the St. Louis area and elsewhere as part of his reason for pursuing a recount. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/58 "2006-08-10T21:05:45Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] There was one just yestarday. [/QUOTE] Nowhere in that entire article did I see the words, “fixing” or “cheating”. Asking for a recount is one thing. Crying “voter fraud!” for years after the election is something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/59 "2006-08-10T21:08:16Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Nowhere in that entire article did I see the words, “fixing” or “cheating”. Asking for a recount is one thing. Crying “voter fraud!” for years after the election is something else entirely. [/QUOTE] While it doesn’t contain the words “fixing” or “cheating” what the hell do you think this: "Jackson cited the prevalence of new electronic voting equipment in the St. Louis area and elsewhere as part of his reason for pursuing a recount. " Is supposed to imply? That he just likes watching the pretty lights as the computer recounts? ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007/60 "2006-08-10T21:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] It makes as much sense to assert that Democrats cry fraud every time they lose as it does to assert Republicans are unconcerned about having secure voting systems because they’ve been winning elections recently, which is to say, not much. [/QUOTE] Gotcha. I didn’t think you’d lost your marbles. I just didn’t understand your post. Thanks for the clarification. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/electronic-voting-machines-cheat-another-democrat-out-of-an-election/368007.md?page=4)