# Elementary - season 4 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816 "2015-11-06T16:12:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/1 "2015-11-06T16:12:23Z")
New season started last night. Decent episode, and John Noble is a great choice for the long-unseen elder Holmes. My prediction: it seemed too quick and easy that Sherlock suddenly avoided prosecution. That will turn into an ongoing plot point, where someone used influence to quash the prosecution. Most likely his father, but possibly Moriarty. ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/2 "2015-11-06T20:12:28Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > New season started last night. Decent episode, and John Noble is a great choice for the long-unseen elder Holmes. > > My prediction: it seemed too quick and easy that Sherlock suddenly avoided prosecution. That will turn into an ongoing plot point, where someone used influence to quash the prosecution. Most likely his father, but possibly Moriarty. I thought it was a basically good episode as well. And I almost missed it! I planned to spend the evening transcribing some writing and playing Diablo 3. So glad I checked TV Guide online! John Noble is delightfully condescending in this role. (I loved him on Fringe!) I get the feeling that Papa Holmes is going to be a real piece of work… I think nearly killing that guy (sorry, I don’t remember this name) should come back to haunt Sherlock in some way - I’d be surprised if it doesn’t. Next week looks interesting! Papa Holmes meets Watson? Oh dear. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/3 "2015-11-06T20:25:35Z")
I will have to wait till it starts streaming on HULU, but I have a question. Why is Jonny Lee Miller playing Holmes like Billy Bob Thorton in Sling Blade? He started season 1 as a hipster rebel. 4 or 5 episodes in, he gets a bowl cut and starts buttoning the top button on ugly and ill-fitting shirts and jackets. He walks and stands like has something inserted rectally. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/4 "2015-11-06T21:09:59Z")
> [@mage-girl](#): > > John Noble is delightfully condescending in this role. (I loved him on Fringe!) I get the feeling that Papa Holmes is going to be a real piece of work… He seems to be doing a variation on Walternate, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![bethewave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@bethewave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethewave)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/5 "2015-11-06T21:33:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He seems to be doing a variation on Walternate, in fact. I was thinking the same thing. Also, he was looking quite trim in that coat. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/6 "2015-11-09T14:06:27Z")
All I could think of was Denethor’s contemptuous treatment of Faramir. Not that Sherlock was Faramir-like. “I congratulate the virgins whose blood you bathe in.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/7 "2015-11-09T14:29:07Z")
Now that I’ve seen Papa Holmes, I can tell Sherlock doesn’t hate his father as much as he acts like he does. His barbs, such as the aforementioned “blood of virgins” are too practiced. If Sherlock really hated his father, he’d have absolutely nothing to do with him. I’m no psychiatrist, so I hope it’s not something cliched like"Sherlock craves his father’s approval." Still, in honor of this episode, I watched ST:TNG’s \*The Icarus Factor \*last night. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/8 "2015-11-09T15:06:53Z")
I’d hazard a guess that Sherlock knows he never would have recovered from his drug problems without his father’s assistance, whether he did it for selfish reasons or not. And they must have been closer when Sherlock was younger - remember the conversation Mycroft said he overheard where Sherlock & father were discussing him? ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/9 "2015-11-11T06:22:02Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I will have to wait till it starts streaming on HULU, but I have a question. > > Why is Jonny Lee Miller playing Holmes like Billy Bob Thorton in Sling Blade? > > He started season 1 as a hipster rebel. 4 or 5 episodes in, he gets a bowl cut and starts buttoning the top button on ugly and ill-fitting shirts and jackets. He walks and stands like has something inserted rectally. I haven’t seen Sling Blade, but I agree, Jonny Lee Miller’s version of Holmes takes some getting used to. In the first season I did kind of watch him and wince, but the interpretation grew on me. I’m currently reading _Dead Boys_ by Gabriel Squailia, and for some reason, I’m hearing the main character’s dialogue in Miller’s “Holmes” voice. It’s kind of entertaining. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/10 "2015-11-13T22:40:57Z")
I really enjoyed the elder Mr. Holmes in last night’s episode… but did anyone else think that the whole thing was edited extremely poorly? We kept being at new scenes with new bits of information with no real idea where they had come from. Where did that chinese symbol come from? Since when did Joan get to use computers int he FBI office? What pointed them in the direction of the ex-husband? etc. I can’t quite decide whether it was poorly edited or whether it was deliberately done that way in some “hey, you’re all smart, you don’t need all the connective tissue” way. But it was disconcerting in any case. Also, how did the “she must have known the person she let in through the two doors” thing fit into the actual events as depicted? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/11 "2015-11-20T23:13:21Z")
I was getting ready for work as I watched last night’s episode, so perhaps I missed it, but what was he vacuum-packing at the end of the episode? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/12 "2015-11-20T23:15:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I was getting ready for work as I watched last night’s episode, so perhaps I missed it, but what was he vacuum-packing at the end of the episode? Turtle food. I enjoyed this episode… one of the more interesting and at least fake-plausible (if not actually plausible) mysteries, and seeing Sherlock and his dad together is great fun. Odds that a doppleganger for Sherlock will feature into some future episode seem high. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/13 "2015-11-20T23:48:54Z")
Thanks for that. The idea of a website or phone app to find your own doppelganger actually sounds like a good one. Wonder if anyone has tried any such thing. I suspect it’s not an easy thing to code. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/14 "2015-11-21T01:01:34Z")
I didn’t notice until yesterday that Noble is listed among the cast credits. So it appears the relationship between Sherlock and his father will be the arc story for this season. The big issue will be whether Morland Holmes is sincere in his apparent desire to reconcile with his son or whether he’s playing some game and Sherlock is justified in his suspicions. Bonus “I saw that coming” points for me if Morland announces he’s dying. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/15 "2015-12-22T18:36:33Z")
Did anyone else see the 12/17 episode? I almost, but not quite, thought Morland was actually being slightly altruistic towards Sherlock, but man, that last scene was something. “They were meant to.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/16 "2015-12-22T19:01:15Z")
Aren’t Holmes Sr’s essentially unbounded powers/contacts a little much? I still find the show enjoyable, but for crying out loud. If EVERY obstacle can be overcome with Moreland’s ability to intimidate ANYONE into giving him whatever info he wishes… ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/17 "2015-12-22T20:19:58Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Aren’t Holmes Sr’s essentially unbounded powers/contacts a little much? > > I still find the show enjoyable, but for crying out loud. If EVERY obstacle can be overcome with Moreland’s ability to intimidate ANYONE into giving him whatever info he wishes… Ah, but first he has to know WHO he needs to intimidate, yes? _That_ is what he needs Sherlock for. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/18 "2015-12-22T21:30:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Bonus “I saw that coming” points for me if Morland announces he’s dying. I am going a different route. I am calling that Sherlock will eventually kill his father. Moreland is too powerful and well connected to ever stand trial for anything. Sherlock will uncover his crimes and decide to kill him in the interest of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/19 "2015-12-23T20:42:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The big issue will be whether Morland Holmes is sincere in his apparent desire to reconcile with his son or whether he’s playing some game and Sherlock is justified in his suspicions. That’s the interpretation I get out of the most recent episode. I’m mad at the Interpol guy. He should have been ready - if he couldn’t blackmail Holmes Sr, he should have been ready to kill him. Go big or go home! ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816/20 "2016-01-09T05:16:25Z")
I thought this week’s episode (with the girl returned to her family after 10 years) was fantastic. I really hope that a certain character becomes a recurring antagonist for Sherlock. Also, I like the idea of Joan working with her father to write about her adventures with Sherlock… a nice callback to the original stories. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elementary-season-4/736816.md?page=2)