# ELI5 how an activa scooter can go 55 km on one litre? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2015, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680 "2015-07-20T10:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/21 "2015-07-21T00:14:49Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you said. > > What I wonder is how well the current EPA city & highway test profiles reflect conditions people actually experience when they drive. E.g. if the EPA highway profile is to accelerate very, very slowly to 50mph & hold that steady for 3 hours then coast to a stop, all the while on dead level low-friction smooth roadway with zero wind other than that caused by vehicle speed, then Yes, a manufacturer could administer the test precisely and fairly then honestly report the results. But at the same time, No, I won’t get that many MPG when I drive on the freeways around here in real world traffic. > > Do we (trade press, enthusiast press, smart messageboard guys, etc.) have any commonly accepted metrics for how “real world” the current EPA tests are and aren’t? IOW, what’s the conversion factor from test to reality? they were toughened up for 2008 to try to be more “real world.” but as with any fixed test plan, you can set up a car to do well on the test. that’s the reason everyone’s going with small turbocharged engines in even large cars and SUVs. the fuel economy test drive cycle doesn’t have these engines using much turbo boost, so the ratings come out pretty good. but then Joe Numpty (who thinks he drives “gently”) buys one, and his driving style of “stomp on the gas until I have to stomp on the brake” turns in lower numbers, and he complains. it’s impossible for a fixed test to be “real world” representative for everyone. My mother regularly beats the sticker mpg ratings on her EcoBoost Fusion, but I know other people with Fusions and Escapes who have WAY lower average mpg. and the way they drive, I can see why. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/22 "2015-07-21T02:13:18Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Do we (trade press, enthusiast press, smart messageboard guys, etc.) have any commonly accepted metrics for how “real world” the current EPA tests are and aren’t? IOW, what’s the conversion factor from test to reality? In my experience, and that of my family, the EPA estimates are low compared with real-world usage. Your Mileage May Vary, and I have a clue as to why: The EPA tests say automatic transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions, when physics and logic (and personal experience) suggests the opposite. I have been told that the reason for this is that the EPA estimates are based on a driver with a fairly low level of skill. An unskilled driver is better off with a machine making the decision of when to shift, and that outweighs the inefficiency of an automatic transmission. If all of that is true, then it stands to reason that a skilled driver would get better mileage than the EPA estimate, especially when trying to do so. [fueleconomy.gov](http://fueleconomy.gov) says the 1989 Honda CRX HF got 37 city 47 highway/ I got 38 driving back and forth to work (8 miles each way) and topped 80mpg on a 1200 mile road trip, and that car was 10 years old when I got it. My Mom got similar results from that car when she owned it. Their data only goes back to the mid 80’s, so I don’t know what the EPA predicted I’d get in the 1975 Dodge Royal Monaco Brougham Station Wagon with the 400ci V8 I owned around 1990. I was getting 28 highway and 26 while delivering for Domino’s Pizza. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/23 "2015-07-21T03:14:59Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > The EPA tests say automatic transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions, when physics and logic (and personal experience) suggests the opposite. I have been told that the reason for this is that the EPA estimates are based on a driver with a fairly low level of skill. An unskilled driver is better off with a machine making the decision of when to shift, and that outweighs the inefficiency of an automatic transmission. That is definitely not true. The tests are administered by the automakers themselves per the EPA standards. So long as they’re doing the right drive cycle they can pick whoever they want to drive, and I suspect most automakers pick someone who can drive stick. The real reason is that things like lock up torque converters allow modern automatics to transmit power very close to as efficiently as a manual but also tend to have more gears (up to infinity with a CVT.) That’s combined with the fact that on cars that are still offered with a stick, the stick is supposed to be the “sporty” option so they tend to be geared lower for zippy handling. Also, re: the fuel consumption of your cherished vehicles of the past, it’s a very well known phenomenon where we tend to remember only the absolute best tank of gas we got in our old cars and tend to over-remember how much we _actually_ used to get in day to day driving. I know I’m certainly quite guilty of it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/24 "2015-07-21T04:48:06Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > The EPA tests say automatic transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions, when physics and logic (and personal experience) suggests the opposite. As mush as I love a manual transmission, and sure wish this was true, it just isn’t any more. Modern dual-clutch automatics, or the 8, 9 or even 10 gear torque converter transmissions have long surpassed even what a skilled human can do, either in the realm of performance or that of economy. Only reason to have a manual these days is to have more fun, knowing that you’real either giving up performance or mileage for the satisfaction of rowing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/25 "2015-07-21T04:55:24Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Only reason to have a manual these days is to have more fun, knowing that you’real either giving up performance or mileage for the satisfaction of rowing yourself. I saved $1000 by buying the 6 speed manual instead of the automatic. I consider that a reason. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/26 "2015-07-21T05:05:16Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > As mush as I love a manual transmission, and sure wish this was true, it just isn’t any more. Modern dual-clutch automatics, or the 8, 9 or even 10 gear torque converter transmissions have long surpassed even what a skilled human can do Also Continuously Variable Transmission, while its less efficient than manual, allows the engine to stay at peak efficiency RPM all the time. > **[Continuously variable transmission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission)** > > A continuously variable transmission (CVT) is an automated transmission that can change through a continuous range of gear ratios. This contrasts with other transmissions that provide a limited number of gear ratios in fixed steps. The flexibility of a CVT with suitable control may allow the engine to operate at a constant angular velocity while the vehicle moves at varying speeds. > CVTs are used in cars, tractors, side-by-sides, motor scooters, snowmobiles, bicycles, and earthmoving equipment.... ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/27 "2015-07-21T05:48:44Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I saved $1000 by buying the 6 speed manual instead of the automatic. I consider that a reason. Your vehicle can easily use on the order of it’s own cost or more in fuel in it’s lifespan. 20-30k. Depends on gas prices. As you can imagine, a moderate improvement in fuel efficiency would pay $1000. Sure, manuals are more fun, but they may not save you money. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/28 "2015-07-21T05:50:22Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I saved $1000 by buying the 6 speed manual instead of the automatic. I consider that a reason. Depending on the model, though, standard vs. automatic may be harder to sell hence have a lower resale value. That sporty-looking Mustang or Miata may benefit from the appeal of manual, but the typical driver of a Camry or BMW 5-series sedan or minivan probably is not interested in standard. As an aside, I noted when I was a tourist in Beijing about 5 years ago that a lot of the scooters were electric. The typical battery pack was about the size of two cartons of cigarettes (appropriate measurement over there) and popped out so it could be plugged in indoors to charge (and remove the appeal of the vehicle to thieves). the problem comes when scooters share the road with a huge number of SUV-sized vehicles and luxury cars whose drivers have not learned to watch for small vehicles; and the arterial road speeds are typically 45mph to 55mph. Get into congested big city traffic where nobody can get above 30, and big cars can take several cycles to get through a traffic light, and you are in an environment where scooters beat cars all the time. That’s a major reason why they are so popular in old European and Asian cities with minimal expressway options. Cheap also helps. I remember noting a family of four on a scooter in Naples - dad driving, mama behind him holding the baby, and junior standing on the floorboard in front of dad. No helmets of restraints. Fully loaded like that, it still had no problem climbing the hills in Naples. It was also “teach your child to drive” day, I’m sure. Kids no older than 8 or 9 were taking turns driving scooters down the sidewalks in one downtown neighbourhood. Famous author Mordecai Richler had a piece once talking about when he was teen in Montreal, some young man in the neighbourhood bought a scooter to get around. He and his buddies would wait til the guy went to sleep each night, then wheel the scooter down the block and joyride all over the place for hours. One day, the scooter was gone. He askd the fellow where it went. “Oh,” he replied. “I sold it. It just wasn’t getting the gas mileage I expected.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/29 "2015-07-21T06:32:00Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > … > [fueleconomy.gov](http://fueleconomy.gov) says the 1989 Honda CRX HF got 37 city 47 highway/ I got 38 driving back and forth to work (8 miles each way) and topped 80mpg on a 1200 mile road trip, and that car was 10 years old when I got it. My Mom got similar results from that car when she owned it… 80 mpg? No way. I owned a 1989 CRX and bought it new. I got about 56 mpg (imperial) on my highway trips, which comes out to about 45 mpg in USG, right in line with the predicted fuel consumption. There’s no way you got 80 mpg out of that car. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/30 "2015-07-21T08:34:37Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > No thats not true, here is a test carried out by a magazine and they got 55 kpl on a 300 km real world riding test: > [http://www.motoroids.com/reviews/efficiency-activa-ted-honda-activa-het-review-pictures-images-specs-price-and-details/](http://www.motoroids.com/reviews/efficiency-activa-ted-honda-activa-het-review-pictures-images-specs-price-and-details/) I note that in the comments below, there are several owners who are skeptical about that mileage claim. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/31 "2015-07-21T09:26:05Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I note that in the comments below, there are several owners who are skeptical about that mileage claim. yes and others confirm they are getting over 50 kpl. Of course it depends on where they live and driving style, those that live in cities with constant stop start will get much less. The 50+ figure is on open roads in the country side. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/32 "2015-07-21T11:57:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I don’t disagree with anything you said. > > What I wonder is how well the current EPA city & highway test profiles reflect conditions people actually experience when they drive. E.g. if the EPA highway profile is to accelerate very, very slowly to 50mph & hold that steady for 3 hours then coast to a stop, all the while on dead level low-friction smooth roadway with zero wind other than that caused by vehicle speed, then Yes, a manufacturer could administer the test precisely and fairly then honestly report the results. But at the same time, No, I won’t get that many MPG when I drive on the freeways around here in real world traffic. For starters, [here are the EPA driving cycles.](http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/testing/dynamometer.htm) Specifically, [this is what the EPA highway fuel economy driving schedule looks like.](http://www.epa.gov/nvfel/methods/hwfetdds.gif) If you want to pinpoint moment-by-moment speeds, there are links to text files on at the main page (first link in this paragraph). The peak speed is only 60 MPH, which doesn’t exactly mimic driving across Nebraska - but the speed varies quite a bit over the course of the test, which will give you substantially lower fuel economy than a constant high speed. The vehicle is tested on a chassis dynamometer. The rollers under the wheels are steel, but that doesn’t much matter; the vast majority of rolling resistance comes from the tires themselves. The aero drag is modeled as being entirely due to vehicle speed, but on average, this will be also be true in the real world; some days you’ll have a headwind, some days you’ll have a tail wind. Bottom line, IME my real-world highway fuel economy seems to pretty closely match what the window sticker says. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/33 "2015-07-21T13:20:30Z")
Going into how much fuel is needed. Ever light gasoline with a flame (match, lighter, etc.), the initial poof, which is quite substantial, is the vapor that evaporated, so very little is needed to get a good amount of energy out. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/34 "2015-07-21T14:23:00Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > The EPA tests say automatic transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions, when physics and logic (and personal experience) suggests the opposite. I have been told that the reason for this is that the EPA estimates are based on a driver with a fairly low level of skill. An unskilled driver is better off with a machine making the decision of when to shift, and that outweighs the inefficiency of an automatic transmission. If a particular model of car is offered with a manual or an automatic, chances are the top gear on the manual is lower than the top gear on the automatic; this alleviates the need for the driver of the manual to downshift whenever he wants to speed up on the highway, but it also results in worse fuel economy than the automatic. The EPA fuel economy tests make no assumptions about the skill or judgment of the driver. The rules require the vehicle to stay within a couple of MPH of the prescribed speed at any given point during the test. For shifting of a manual transmission, shift points (and gear selections) are supposed to be the same as what’s recommended in the vehicle’s owner manual. If the owner’s manual doesn’t make any such recommendations, then the tester can upshift at their discretion, provided the EPA doesn’t deem the shift points unreasonable (e.g. an upshift that results in 600 RPM is probably going to be deemed unreasonable). [Here’s the relevant fragment of the rulebook](http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?rgn=div6&node=40:19.0.1.1.2.6#se40.19.86_1528_678): > [@Code of Federal Regulations](#): > > §86.528-78 Transmissions. > > (a) Vehicles equipped with transfer cases, multiple sprockets, etc., shall be tested in the manufacturer’s recommended configuration for street or highway use. If more than one configuration is recommended or if the recommendation is deemed unreasonable by the Administrator, the Administrator will specify the test configuration. > > (b) All tests shall be conducted with automatic transmissions in “Drive” (highest gear). Automatic clutch-torque converter transmissions may be shifted as manual transmissions at the option of the manufacturer. > > (c) Idle modes shall be run with automatic transmissions in “Drive” and the wheels braked, manual transmission shall be in gear with the clutch disengaged; except first idle, see §§86.536 and 86.537. > > (d) The vehicle shall be driven with minimum throttle movement to maintain the desired speed. No simultaneous use of brake and throttle shall be permitted. > > (e) Acceleration modes shall be driven smoothly. Automatic transmissions shall shift automatically through the normal sequence of gears; manual transmissions shall be shifted as recommended by the manufacturer to the ultimate purchaser (unless determined to be unreasonable by the Administrator) with the operator closing the throttle during each shift and accomplishing the shift with minimum time. If the vehicle cannot accelerate at the specified rate, the vehicle shall be operated with the throttle fully opened until the vehicle speed reaches the value prescribed for that time in the driving schedule. > > (f) The deceleration modes shall be run in gear using brakes or throttle as necessary to maintain the desired speed. Manual transmission vehicles shall be downshifted using the same shift points as when upshifting or as recommended by the manufacturer in the vehicle owner’s manual. All downshifts shall be made smoothly, disengaging the clutch while shifting and engaging the clutch once the lower gear has been selected. For those modes which require the vehicle to decelerate to zero, manual transmission clutches shall be disengaged when the speed drops below 15 km/h (9.3 mph) for vehicles with engine displacements equal to or greater than 280 cc (17.1 cu. in.), when the speed drops below 10 km/h (6.2 mph) for vehicles with engine displacements less than 280 cc (17.1 cu. in.), when engine roughness is evident, or when engine stalling is imminent. > > (g) If downshifting during deceleration is not permitted in the vehicle owner’s manual, manual transmissions will be downshifted at the beginning of or during a power mode if recommended by the manufacturer or if the engine obviously is lugging. For those modes which require these vehicles to decelerate to zero, manual transmission clutches shall be disengaged when the speed drops below 25 km/h (15.5 mph) for vehicles with engine displacement equal to or greater than 280 cc (17.1 cu. in.), when the speed drops below 20 km/h (12.4 mph) for vehicles with engine displacements less than 280 cc (17.1 cu. in.), when engine roughness is evident, or when engine stalling is imminent. While the clutch is disengaged and during these deceleration modes, the vehicle shall be shifted to the appropriate gear for starting the next mode. > > (h) If shift speeds are not recommended by the manufacturer, manual transmission vehicles shall be shifted as follows: > > (1) For Class I and II motorcycles: > 1st to 2d gear 19 km/h (11.8 mi/h). > 2d to 3d gear 33 km/h (20.5 mi/h). > 3d to 4th gear 44 km/h (27.3 mi/h). > 4th to 5th gear 53 km/h (32.9 mi/h). > > (2) For Class III motorcycles: > 1st to 2d gear 30 km/h (18.6 mi/h). > 2d to 3d gear 45 km/h (28.0 mi/h). > 3d to 4th gear 60 km/h (37.3 mi/h). > 4th to 5th gear 75 km/h (46.6 mi/h). > > (3) Higher gears may be used at the manufacturer’s option. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/35 "2015-07-21T14:34:22Z")
it’s also why a lot of 6+ gear manuals have that enraging 1-4 skip shift “feature.” ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/36 "2015-07-22T01:53:30Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > 80 mpg? No way. I owned a 1989 CRX and bought it new. I got about 56 mpg (imperial) on my highway trips, which comes out to about 45 mpg in USG, right in line with the predicted fuel consumption. > > There’s no way you got 80 mpg out of that car. Well, I had assumed I had made a math error, but my stepfather said he got similar mileage on a similar trip he made each summer in that car. I was often reaching 80-85mph, and as I said the trip was 1200 miles. I would have been impressed with 50mpg. The Dodge V8 figures were consistent over a year-and-a-half. It had a “fuel minder system” which was a light that glowed when you were “burning fuel inefficiently”. Drive gently, keep the light off, and you get 26mpg. Or punch the pedal to the floor and watch the light come on like a star going nova. That was fun too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/37 "2015-07-22T01:59:54Z")
Re: manual transmissions. I heard that bit about the EPA tests in reference to why automatic transmissions were now standard and manual an option when the opposite used to be the case, and tangentially why cars like the Camaro are designed to be easy to convert an automatic to manual. I was told manufacturers face a restriction on the average fuel economy of all the cars they sell, and the EPA tests give better results to automatics, so they made automatics cheaper to get more people to buy them, thus bringing up the average MPG of all the cars they sell. All of my information is a few decades out of date, as I believe it was a 1986 Camaro being discussed. And it may have just been a tale to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/38 "2015-07-22T02:08:17Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > Re: manual transmissions. > > I heard that bit about the EPA tests in reference to why automatic transmissions were now standard and manual an option when the opposite used to be the case, and tangentially why cars like the Camaro are designed to be easy to convert an automatic to manual. > I was told manufacturers face a restriction on the average fuel economy of all the cars they sell, and the EPA tests give better results to automatics, so they made automatics cheaper to get more people to buy them, thus bringing up the average MPG of all the cars they sell. > > All of my information is a few decades out of date, as I believe it was a 1986 Camaro being discussed. And it may have just been a tale to begin with. That doesn’t sound totally implausible. Obviously, it’s possible to work out ways to manufacture an automatic less expensively, and the EPA is probably right to count a manual transmission as consuming more fuel. Sure, specific individuals who are experts might get better mileage out of a manual - but the average driver is what the government regulation is trying to improve efficiency for. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/39 "2015-07-22T02:50:37Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > Well, I had assumed I had made a math error, but my stepfather said he got similar mileage on a similar trip he made each summer in that car. > > I was often reaching 80-85mph, and as I said the trip was 1200 miles. I would have been impressed with 50mpg. > > The Dodge V8 figures were consistent over a year-and-a-half. It had a “fuel minder system” which was a light that glowed when you were “burning fuel inefficiently”. Drive gently, keep the light off, and you get 26mpg. > Or punch the pedal to the floor and watch the light come on like a star going nova. That was fun too. 😉 Sorry. 80 mpg in a 1989 Honda CRX is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680/40 "2015-07-22T02:50:42Z")
Having been a service manager and having fielded customer fuel mileage complaints, I can comment. You know the phrase YMMV? It probably should be YMWV? (Your mileage will vary) because nobody drives that way as a matter of course. Over the years I have driven hundreds of cars for a weekend or a couple of days to check out fuel mileage complaints. In all of those test drives I have had car faults on two of them. Every other fuel mileage complaint was directly traceable to poor driving habits. I have never failed to exceed the EPA numbers on these test drives (the two cars with issues excepted) The customer reaction was always fun. I had one guy that swore his Hyundai would not exceed 17MPG. I took the car for the weekend and gave it back to him on Monday with an average MPG of 34 (EPA highway of 32 IIRC). At first he didn’t believe me, and then became my buddy always saying hello whenever he came in. As far as the EPA tests go when they first started they actually drove the cars around Los Angeles on a set route (called the LA loop) Later they moved the tests to the dyno. The wind resistance is calculated based on real world instrumented runs. At the Volvo (now Ford) test track in Arizona they have a two mile long by about 100 yards wide stretch of asphalt that is flat. As in flat to within 1/4" through the entire surface. They accelerate the car to a set speed kick it in neutral and record the coast down with instruments. They do this multiple times in both directions to get a real world duplicatable number. From this they can calculate the wind resistance. (BTW this is the calculation Hyundai messed up. They added instead of subtracted or something like that) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eli5-how-an-activa-scooter-can-go-55-km-on-one-litre/725680.md?page=3)