# Elian has been freed!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 28, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920 "2000-06-28T19:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/61 "2000-06-29T20:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > And Gawd, I’m a putz because I happen to disagree with you on this? Whatever. IMO, you’re a putz because you sound like a WAY left-winged radical(READ:Farrrrrrrrr left), with a bend on stupid conspiracy theories. Have you been to Cuba? Have you witnessed the horrors of Elians family? are they tortured? reprogrammed? made to watch reruns of I love Lucy 24 hours a day till they break? Aside from that, I hate watching idiotic crap like this dividing my country. He was an Alien, not an asylum candidate. He shoulda been returned many months ago. His Floridian family decided they needed a spokesperson, and who better to do it than a cute little brown-eyed kid who looked SO sad without mommy? “She died for us” they’ll say…(In your words)Whatever! So he got stuck with some other conspiracy theorists, and placed in the middle of a fight that was NOT meant for him. He was a little innocent kid and now he’s been exposed to TONS of crap because of Lazaro or whatever his name is. So, “whatever”, right back at ya babe. -Sam ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/62 "2000-06-29T20:56:09Z")
**Moderator’s Notes:** Thanks, GaWd. I had no fucking idea what to do with this thread. Until your post, I was inclined to leave it here with an advisement to all of you to behave yourselves, but now I ain’t gotta worry about it. Off to the Pit with Elian and the lot o’ ya. Just for the future reference of _everyone_, if you think your post belongs is the pit, it probably does. Show some restraint. And deliberately posting to a topic as a goad to get a thread moved to the pit, while not a really terrible offense, is generally bad form and is discouraged. Here ya go, Lynn and Alphagene. Yet one more Elian topic for your enjoyment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/63 "2000-06-29T21:12:59Z")
Gaaaah! Not more Elian! We just finished digesting the _last_ Elian Pit thread! Geez, the things they put us demons through down here… ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/64 "2000-06-29T21:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > > US officials had him alone at times and communicated with him by passing notes to eliminate any risk of bugs in the room. There were no Cubans observing him then. \*\* No, but any decision to stay in the U.S. could not have been kept secret for long, and anyone who knows anything about the Cuban government knows that his family in Cuba would have suffered for it. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > You’re basing your assumptions about his true wishes on YOUR political beliefs, not on his. > \*\* I’m not making any assumtions about his true wishes. I’ve already said it’s quite possible he truly wanted to go back to Cuba, and I’ve even said I understand the rationale behind returning Elian to him. I just see it as a tragedy from start to finish, not something to cheer about. ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/65 "2000-06-29T21:51:36Z")
The tragedy here is the people who care more about their own political agenda than the boy’s fate. ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/66 "2000-06-29T22:13:36Z")
I really had no intention of turning this into a big heated debate. I am truly suprised at how ugly this has turned. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2000, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/67 "2000-06-29T22:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > No, but any decision to stay in the U.S. could not have been kept secret for long, and anyone who knows anything about the Cuban government knows that his family in Cuba would have suffered for it. > \*\* If there was any inkling that he wanted to stay in the US, how difficult would it have been for the US government to drag the case out to make it look as though it was _their_ decision and not his? > [@](#): > > I just see it as a tragedy from start to finish, not something to cheer about. What’s to cheer about is that it’s OVER, and this little boy will finally be able to get on with his life. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/68 "2000-06-30T00:46:18Z")
> [@](#): > > **I am Shocked, I think the kid should stay here. His mother died to bring him here and Castro is just going to kill him** Oh, boo fucking hoo. It’s about time that little fuck was sent back. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/69 "2000-06-30T01:01:43Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/rafters99/docs2/085367.htm](http://www.herald.com/content/archive/news/rafters99/docs2/085367.htm) > > Here is a link to a story run by the Miami Herald which seems to verify that the reason Elian’s mother took to the seas was so she could be with her boyfriend. No other reason, just to be with her boyfriend. So what if her only reason was to be with her boyfriend? That just illustrates another example of Castro’s totalitarian regime. If she had lived in NYC, and her BF wanted to move to LA, no problem. If the BF wanted to move to France, still no problem. (France might not let her in, but the US wouldn’t stop her from leaving.) In Cuba, they don’t even have the right to travel where they want. Sheesh! BTW, I think the title to this thread is in error. Elian has NOT been freed, but rather re-imprisoned in Castro’s prison called Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/70 "2000-06-30T08:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Elian has been freed!!! I now have mental images of Siegfried and Roy shooting that white tiger with a tranquilizer dart (in a Simpsons episode), taking him to a cage and saying “This white tiger is freed!” You see, the only way that Cuba can continue to exist the way it does it for Castro to keep up the image that Democracy is evil. Elian, having enjoyed the fruits of freedom (some people here seem to think freedom is bad, as well 🙂 ), will probably undergo some sort of quarantined brainwashing or something… And as for “they’re finally obeying the law”… until the court ruling that said a child couldn’t apply for asylum, it would have been illegal to send him back to Cuba, it being a sanctioned country and all. Anyway, he’s gone, and we don’t have to worry/hear about him anymore. You know, Castro can start sending us pictures of him personally beating Elian with a bent 9-iron, and there’d be absolutely nothing we could do about it. But hey, Elian’s freed! He’s with his dad! It’s a happy ending! …And there was much rejoicing… ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/71 "2000-06-30T23:30:48Z")
No-one gave a rats ass about Elain. Reno wanted him because the Miami Relatives defied her, The Miami Relatives wanted him in order to defy Fidel, Fidel wanted him in order to defy the USA, etc, etc. Now, the kid, at that age, is probably better off with his father, rather than his Uncle, etc, but I am sure they would have treated him well also. But nobody cared about what was best for Elian, just what was best for their political agenda. Little kids should not be political footballs. A custody hearing might have settled that, but, since it would have been non-political, that was the last thing that was going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2000, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/72 "2000-07-01T10:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > And as for “they’re finally obeying the law”… until the court ruling that said a child couldn’t apply for asylum, it would have been illegal to send him back to Cuba, it being a sanctioned country and all. > \*\* Do you mind citing that law for me Spoofe? I can’t seem to find it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2000, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/73 "2000-07-01T10:37:23Z")
Ruadh, it’s the same law that has been quoted numerous other times in this exact same thread… boy, you must’ve been looking VERY hard! Namely, the fact that if a Cuban manages to get to American soil, he/she’s considered a “refugee”, or those who are found at see in International waters could apply for aslyum. Technically, since Elian managed to get to American soil, he should have been considered a refugee. HOWEVER, that law didn’t take into account the idea that very young children (such as Elian) would somehow get over here all by their lonesome. In other words, our dear lil’ buddy Elian was a “gray area” until the courts decided that, hey, he’s a kid, he can’t even spell “refugee”… send him back! I was pointing out that now we have a better-defined letter of the law for future instances of Cuban children getting to America alone, with a parent over in their home country. Not that you hastily pounced all over me or anything 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2000, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/74 "2000-07-01T11:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > So what if her only reason was to be with her boyfriend? **milroyj,** I posted the link to the story in an attempt to support my contention that Elian’s mother did not leave Cuba because of the high minded ideals ascribed to her by another poster. She left Cuba in the hope of hooking up with her boyfriend. That seems to me to be not the best of reasons for subjecting a (kidnapped) six year old child to the dangers inherent in an ocean voyage on a damn raft. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2000, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/75 "2000-07-01T12:28:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Ruadh, it’s the same law that has been quoted numerous other times in this exact same thread… boy, you must’ve been looking VERY hard! Namely, the fact that if a Cuban manages to get to American soil, he/she’s considered a “refugee”, or those who are found at see in International waters could apply for aslyum. Technically, since Elian managed to get to American soil, he should have been considered a refugee. > \*\* You mean the law that’s been MIS-quoted numerous other times … including by you. For the umpteenth time, the status the Cubans are granted is **parole** , not refugee status. Parole is conditional and revocable, even for Cubans - though it’s extremely unusual for theirs to be revoked, it’s NOT illegal. (Just so you know, Spoofe, I was a US immigration paralegal until a few months ago. I have a pretty good grasp of the law here, and I suggest you do some research on the subject before arguing any further about it.) ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2000, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/76 "2000-07-02T03:41:04Z")
Ruadh, Ruadh, Ruadh… So you were an immigration official. Big fuckin’ deal. The point of my post wasn’t immigration, genius. Those in support of Elian going home were yelling “It’s the LAW that he has to go back!” and those in support of him staying were yelling “It’s the LAW that he has to stay!” MY point, which you missed from wa-a-a-a-a-ay up there on your high horse, is that this could have gone either way, and NOW we have a better translation of the law. Methinks you need something to calm those hypertense nerves of yours. That being said, fuck off… and… have a nice day 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2000, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/77 "2000-07-02T09:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > So you were an immigration official. I was an immigration PARALEGAL, which is not the same thing as an immigration OFFICIAL (I worked for private law firms, not the US government). And yes, it is a big deal because it means I know the laws, and you, plainly, don’t. Yet you have now twice argued with me on this subject using “the law” to back up your POV. All I am saying is **LEARN the frigging law** before you do this. > [@](#): > > Those in support of Elian going home were yelling “It’s the LAW that he has to go back!” and those in support of him staying were yelling “It’s the LAW that he has to stay!” MY point, which you missed from wa-a-a-a-a-ay up there on your high horse, is that this could have gone either way, and NOW we have a better translation of the law. Oh, please. The only person here I heard say that it was the LAW that he had to stay was you. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2000, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/78 "2000-07-02T11:33:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > No-one gave a rats ass about Elain. > \*\* One person did. His father. ---
**Author:** ![dewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@dewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dewt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2000, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/79 "2000-07-02T17:32:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > No-one gave a rats ass about Elain. > > \*\* > > One person did. His father. > \*\* No kidding. dewt ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2000, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920/80 "2000-07-03T02:37:34Z")
Oh, I agree that Elian’s father very likely cared very much for him, but he might not have been able to voice his opinion on Elain USA vs Elian Cuba. He might haved stayed, if there had not been those hostages back in Cuba. On the other hand, it is very possible that Elians father was a patriotic Castro-fan, and also truly thought that Cuba was the best place for his son. But as he HAD to say that, and could NOT agree that Elian should stay in the USA, we will never really know, will we? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elian-has-been-freed/23920.md?page=5)