# Eliminating the apostrophe would improve English **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150 "2018-03-06T21:20:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/61 "2018-03-08T13:04:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If there is a problem with the use of the apostrophe in the English language it is that it is used for multiple purposes and somewhat inconsistently; for instance, it indicates possession in the third person specific (“The stolen money is in Bob’s van”) but not first or second person (“mine”, “yours”, “hers”) or their person generic (“theirs”, “its”), while it is used for contraction (“it’s” for “it is”) in a fashion that is often confused with pluralization or possession. Rather than eliminating the apostrophe completely, it would make more sense to retain it for contraction, which is common in not only English but many other Romance and Germanic languages while establishing a new and clearer convention for possession that includes gender neutral pronouns, which also cause problems when referring to mixed gender groups or generic persons. I’m going to vote for this - Here is my solution: For contractions, use the traditional apostrophe: can’t, don’t, won’t. I’ll call this the “right apostrophe”. It shows up on my keyboard as a single quote, or the lower case of the double quote. For possessive, use what I call the “left apostrophe”. It is on my keyboard to the left of “1”, as a lower case of the “~”. Bob`s, Sue`s, also roll in first and second person, etc., her`s, their`s. Problem solved! I think I will teach this to my children, and instruct them to correct any teacher who does not use this method. That will be fun! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/62 "2018-03-08T13:12:46Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > How do you understand it if you hear it? Around here, actually, I have heard in informal speech, if there is ambiguity, to add an extra syllable, like “brotherses boat,” to make it clear you’re making a possessive out of the plural “brothers” as opposed to the singular “brother.” No doubt some will think that is making a travesty/mockery of the English language, but it does the job. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/63 "2018-03-08T13:23:20Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Also, the letter “h.” To ell wit it. No, silly. The first letter to get the axe will be C sinse K or S kan replase it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@MonkeyCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyCat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/64 "2018-03-08T22:06:37Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Eliminating the apostrophe would create a small amount of ambiguity in a small number of cases. But we already have ambiguity because a lot of people don’t know what an apostrophe is for. > > The meaning is usually very obvious in context, and we already have to determine said meaning when something is spoken. Other than the Trump “rapists” comment, I can’t think of any time such ambiguity has really led to debate. (If you want to rehash that one, there are plenty of other threads.) > > So, let’s kick that stupid punctuation to the curb where it belongs. > > (But if you come for my Oxford comma, I’ll cry.) I also proudly sport the Oxford comma. I have the vaguest sense of camaraderie suddenly. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/65 "2018-03-08T22:13:12Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > No, silly. The first letter to get the axe will be C sinse K or S kan replase it anyway. No, no. I think either “q” or “x” should be at the front of the line. They’ll be the least missed. Then we can get to the “C.” ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/66 "2018-03-08T22:18:19Z")
Nothing inherently wrong with people who don’t use the Oxford comma, but I’m still putting them on my list. For what purpose? They’ll find out. > [@Icarus](#): > > For possessive, use what I call the “left apostrophe”. It is on my keyboard to the left of “1”, as a lower case of the “~”. Bob`s, Sue`s, also roll in first and second person, etc., her`s, their`s. Grave. Pronounced either like the cemetery feature, or like graahv. That’s a pretty useless symbol as an accent mark in some languages like French and sometimes Italian it doesn’t do anything except look cool and sometimes differentiate words, like ou vs. où. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/67 "2018-03-09T20:54:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I agree - there’s no fixing it; reforming spelling to try make it consistent with pronunciation is another one (and that one is pointless because there is no standard pronunciation) > > I agree with you on that one too - I break that rule on purpose. Do we want to make English spellings more consistent with pronunciation? Get ready to write a new ABC song, because we’ll need 18 more letters in our alphabet so that there is one symbol for each sound. Then we’ll need to retrain every literate user of English. And then the books and the computers… ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/68 "2018-03-09T21:37:54Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > Do we want to make English spellings more consistent with pronunciation? Get ready to write a new ABC song, because we’ll need 18 more letters in our alphabet so that there is one symbol for each sound. Then we’ll need to retrain every literate user of English. And then the books and the computers… Can’t speak for **Magnetout** but he was responding to me - The point I was making is not that we need to replace all of english spelling and syntax with something better. (Esperanto, presumably.) It’s that it’s really odd to get bothered by the single specific confusion relating to apostrophes and pluralization. Especially since it’s only problematic if people screw up and do it wrong - and seriously, it’s not that hard to get right. Me, I’d rather fix something that’s objectively wrong, like the fact that when I’m quoting 'This sucks." in a sentence I have to write it as “This sucks,” or worse, “This sucks!” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/69 "2018-03-10T17:54:00Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Me, I’d rather fix something that’s objectively wrong, like the fact that when I’m quoting 'This sucks." in a sentence I have to write it as “This sucks,” or worse, “This sucks!” Putting the comma or period inside the quotation marks is an American convention. Exclamation points and question marks go inside the quotation marks if they are part of what is being quoted and outside if they are not. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/70 "2018-03-11T00:28:47Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > No, silly. The first letter to get the axe will be C sinse K or S kan replase it anyway. Then you’d better get used to eating heese and hokolate. Doesn’t sound as good, does it? I like what they’ve done in Malay and Indonesian: since the letter c is only needed for that one phoneme (they simply use k and s for /k/ and /s/), they drop the useless h and write e.g. cakra for chakra. This is also true of standardized transliterations of Sanskrit and other Indic languages, which is probably where they got the idea. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/71 "2018-03-11T01:46:22Z")
I say we should get rid of the useless little dot over the “i”. Except, maybe, in cursive. BTW, anyone remember those manual typewriters that had no “1” on them? Where you had to use l instead? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/72 "2018-03-11T02:51:26Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I say we should get rid of the useless little dot over the “i”. Except, maybe, in cursive. Turkish did an interesting thing with that. They have an i, which in capital is İ. Basically a long “I” sound in English. They also have I/ı which isn’t really a sound in English. Except apparently in California, NZ, and SA. I don’t know if I’ve been saying “goose” funny all this time or not? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/73 "2018-03-11T05:33:01Z")
It sounds like OP wants to get rid of the regular English genitive suffix _'s,_ specifically. That doesn’t require tossin’ the apostrophe completely, so why is OP framin’ it that way? Some contractions that need apostrophes to be read correctly: \* I’ll we’ll he’ll she’ll we’re \* And some more that mean very different things without 'em: \* let’s who’re 'tain’t \* The premise is wha’ we call ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/74 "2018-03-11T05:34:43Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Me, I’d rather fix something that’s objectively wrong, like the fact that when I’m quoting 'This sucks." in a sentence I have to write it as “This sucks,” or worse, “This sucks!” I think it’s allowed to type, “This sucks”! ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/75 "2018-03-11T08:43:58Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > whilewereatitwhydontweeliminatespacesandmixedcaseletters? > > otherwritingsystemsdoperfectlywellwithneither,sowhyshouldweusethem? isn’t that how ancient rome used to write but in all caps and no spaces or punctuation? ---
**Author:** ![pdhenry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pdhenry/32/5561_2.png) [@pdhenry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdhenry)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/76 "2018-03-11T16:43:51Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > whilewereatitwhydontweeliminatespacesandmixedcaseletters? > > otherwritingsystemsdoperfectlywellwithneither,sowhyshouldweusethem? M ll fr ths. Hbrw dsnt s vwls fr th mst prt, s lts d wy wth thm s wll. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/77 "2018-03-11T17:19:29Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > isn’t that how ancient rome used to write but in all caps and no spaces or punctuation? That was mostly ivst for plaqves and inscriptions. Bvt they reiected two crvcial letters in the alphabet, resvlting in a rather iarring appearance to their texts. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2018, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150/78 "2018-03-12T10:43:48Z")
> [@pdhenry](#): > > M ll fr ths. Hbrw dsnt s vwls fr th mst prt, s lts d wy wth thm s wll. But Hebrew does use one of its consonantal letters, aleph, when a word starts with a vowel, which would make reading your ’bv txt ’sr. Hbrw also uses certain consonants to spell out semivowels, some long vowels, and vowels at the end of a word. ’t ’sn’t ’s svrly rstrctd ’s yr ’xmpl sggsts. Their spelling of at least some vowels is a big help to reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/eliminating-the-apostrophe-would-improve-english/810150.md?page=3)