# Elizabeth II surpassing Victoria **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620 "2015-09-01T17:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/101 "2015-09-10T17:06:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Charles II was cool. > Did not the line die out with Anne? The descendants of Anne’s aunt [Henrietta Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_of_England) (daughter of Charles I, sister of Charles II and James VII/II) were deliberately excluded by the Bill of Right 1689 as Catholics, but they’re still around; the present heir-general of that line is [Franz Duke of Bavaria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria). He’s elderly and unmarried, so the Jacobite succession is likely to pass to his brother and thence to the brother’s eldest daughter, who is the [Hereditary Princess of Liechtenstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie,_Hereditary_Princess_of_Liechtenstein). Her eldest son was born in London, becoming the first Jacobite heir born in Britain since 1688. (Of course, Elizabeth II is likewise descended from the Stuarts, via Elizabeth Queen of Bohemia, the eldest daughter of James VI/I, and her daughter Sophia of Hannover, mother of George I. Prince William Duke of Cambridge is also descended from at least one of Charles II’s illegitimate offspring [via the Spencers].) ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/102 "2015-09-10T17:07:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Agree-would love to see the Stuarts take over, it is their rightful place. The obvious problem with that is that [the ‘Stuart’ with the best claim really is German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/103 "2015-09-10T17:34:09Z")
> [@APB](#): > > The obvious problem with that is that [the ‘Stuart’ with the best claim really is German](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria). Wittlesbach, Ludvig II ! Elizabeth is Saxe Coburg Gotha, is she not? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/104 "2015-09-10T17:36:05Z")
If you mean Elizabeth II, then no. That’s her husband. George I essentially disowned the house of Saxe-Coburg when he took the throne to make himself seem less foreign. > [@Quartz](#): > > Charles has repeatedly shown errors of judgement, right from an early age; William has not. Reports of Charles having someone to squeeze his toothpaste have not helped. Well, tough. If you are going to select your heads of state by primogeniture, you get who you get. It’s pretty much how the system works. Of course, the traditional remedy for incompetent monarchs is revolution, but you could always write to the _Daily Mail_ or something. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/105 "2015-09-10T17:58:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you mean Elizabeth II, then no. That’s her husband. George I essentially disowned the house of Saxe-Coburg when he took the throne to make himself seem less foreign. Is that all it takes? Someone should have told the Czar’s Wife Alexandra. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/106 "2015-09-10T19:41:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you mean Elizabeth II, then no. That’s her husband. George I essentially disowned the house of Saxe-Coburg when he took the throne to make himself seem less foreign. I think you mean George V. George I was a Hanover. And Prince Phillip’s last name is Mountbatten (changed from the original, Battenberg). Any future descendents are know of the House of Mountbatten-Windsor. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/107 "2015-09-10T21:06:35Z")
Yes, brain fart. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/108 "2015-09-10T21:48:26Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Well, yeah, but I assume Charles knows better than the interviewer, or anyone else, whether he and his mother would ever do it. Phrasing! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/109 "2015-09-10T22:21:32Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > It’s funny in a way that longer lifespans effectively ensure shorter reigns. That assumes that the heir is always from the next generation. If the original heir suffers some fatal misadventure, a grandchild might inherit at a fairly young age. (The European record-holder Louis XIV provides an extreme example; he outlived his son and grandson and left the throne to great-grandson Louis XV.) Another side note: It’s possible, though now considered unlikely by some Egyptologists, that [Pepi II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepi_II_Neferkare) holds the record at 94 years (the limited records available indicate that perhaps it was “only” 62-64 years). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/110 "2015-09-10T22:37:12Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > ETA: Actually, he could convert to Catholicism. That would be neat and tidy and it would be just like he didn’t exist, with things going straight to William. Or divorce and then marry inappropriately. But since the Queen consented to Camilla, he took care of it the first time - and frankly, he and Camilla do seem to still be dotty over each other. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/111 "2015-09-10T22:47:55Z")
As I see it, the next, admittedly slim, chance for a long reign would be George. If Charles and the Queen both died in the next decade and then William suffered some accident or fatal illness, then George could inherit the throne at a fairly young age. But as I said a scenario like that is not very likely. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/112 "2015-09-10T23:34:40Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Or divorce and then marry inappropriately. But since the Queen consented to Camilla, he took care of it the first time - and frankly, he and Camilla do seem to still be dotty over each other. And it’s only since the Pert Agreement that marrying without the sovereign’s consent made one loose one’s succession rights (& only for the first 6 people in line). Under the Royal Marriage Act one retained one’s place in the succession, but the marriage itself was void in the UK & any offspring illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/113 "2015-09-11T01:19:45Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > he and Camilla do seem to still be dotty over each other. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/114 "2015-09-11T01:36:46Z")
Long Live the Queen indeed. The best by far of that crazy clan of inbreeds. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/115 "2015-09-11T02:05:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > 🙂 I do feel for Diana’s tragic life, but I am rather happy about seeing two people who have apparently been in love since their twenties continue to be as delighted in each other as Charles and Camilla seem to be in their sixties. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/116 "2015-09-11T12:37:24Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I do feel for Diana’s tragic life, but I am rather happy about seeing two people who have apparently been in love since their twenties continue to be as delighted in each other as Charles and Camilla seem to be in their sixties. It does not often occur with Royalty. Victoria and Albert, Nicholas and Alexandra come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/117 "2015-09-11T15:35:01Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Long Live the Queen indeed. The best by far of that crazy clan of inbreeds. Elizabeth isn’t terribly inbred (I can’t even see how her parents are related, though I’m sure they are), Charles less so, and William much less so. Elizabeth is her husband’s third cousin, as well as sharing some more distant relationships; that’s not really all that close. “Inbred” might work for social isolation, but the Windsors are nothing like the worst of the Habsburgs. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/118 "2015-09-11T16:20:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It does not often occur with Royalty. Victoria and Albert, Nicholas and Alexandra come to mind. And our Liz and Phil. Introduced by an uncle, but disapproved of by her parents. Dashing young man (very handsome indeed when young) who gave up his title to be her consort. They are, obviously, not a demonstrative couple in public but if they disliked each other in the slightest then we’d know all about it. Charles also seems very close to his sons; can you imagine William ever saying “Dad, I’m more popular than you! Gimme the crown!” Liz is not going to abdicate and neither will Charles. It’s ridiculous to even speculate about it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/119 "2015-09-11T16:48:24Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Elizabeth isn’t terribly inbred (I can’t even see how her parents are related, though I’m sure they are), Charles less so, and William much less so. Elizabeth is her husband’s third cousin, as well as sharing some more distant relationships; that’s not really all that close. > > “Inbred” might work for social isolation, but the Windsors are nothing like the worst of the Habsburgs. My apologies, I was not up on their genealogy. I figured all the royals had been inbreeding for hundreds of years at this point as was true in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/120 "2015-09-11T17:08:23Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > My apologies, I was not up on their genealogy. I figured all the royals had been inbreeding for hundreds of years at this point as was true in the past. Well, they’re not that far gone. I keep hoping someone will get them together and try to re-create one of the old breeds, like Eleanor of Aquitaine or Charlemagne, the way they did with the aurochs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620.md?page=7)