# Elizabeth II surpassing Victoria **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620 "2015-09-01T17:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/141 "2015-09-13T14:06:00Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > On the topic of family intermarriage, what’s the straight dope on Camelia being the descendant of an illegitimate child of her husband’s grandfather’s grandfather? > **[Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lennox,_1st_Duke_of_Richmond)** > > Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond, 1st Duke of Lennox KG (29 July 1672 – 27 May 1723), of Goodwood House near Chichester in Sussex, was the youngest of the seven illegitimate sons of King Charles II, and was that king's only son by his French-born mistress Louise de Kérouaille, Duchess of Portsmouth. He was appointed Hereditary Constable of Inverness Castle. > On his mother's side, he was descended from the Seigneurs of the Château de Kéroual, a castle built in the 16th century in Kerouat-Bih... It goes back to 1672. Not exactly recent enough to be worried about marrying your own half brother. And as randy as Charles II seems to have been, if you are an English aristocrat, your chances of being descended from him are pretty high. Then, of course, sometime after Charles you get the sons of George III. I think you could start an American football team off their illegitimate children. And when it came time to find an heir - all those illegitimate children - and a race to produce a legitimate one - the title’s Victoria. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/142 "2015-09-13T14:13:34Z")
The media focus here in the UK on her being a record breaker caused me to picture her taking on the 200 meter hurdles. They’d have to interview her immediately afterwards of course. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/143 "2015-09-13T17:05:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > According to this [handy-dandy wiki chart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin#Cousin_chart), it could be either, depending which way you start, with Philip or Elizabeth. We’ve [discussed this before](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17909186) and it’s widely accepted that the cousinships _are symmetric_. Last I looked, the Wikipedia page you cite agrees with this. 😉 The Queen and her husband are _2nd cousins once removed of each other_ (due to their shared ancestor King Christian IX) and independently 3rd cousins (due to their shared ancestress Queen Victoria). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/144 "2015-09-13T17:13:05Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > The media focus here in the UK on her being a record breaker caused me to picture her taking on the 200 meter hurdles. They’d have to interview her immediately afterwards of course. Like in the[Queen Victoria Handicap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktYMkxD0Fzc)? ---
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/145 "2015-09-13T23:48:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Well, they’re not that far gone. I keep hoping someone will get them together and try to re-create one of the old breeds, like Eleanor of Aquitaine or Charlemagne, the way they did with the aurochs. This made me cackle so loudly that I had to apologise to my flatmate. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/146 "2015-09-14T07:07:50Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Just FYI, if it was 1942, then it would have been George VI, not V. All the more reason to keep it if it’s a 1942 Canadian penny with George V (_sic_) on it - I can’t begin to imagine what that would be worth! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/147 "2015-09-14T13:37:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Just FYI, if it was 1942, then it would have been George VI, not V. Okay, George VI. The oldest money I received was a 1934 Silver Certificate $5 bill. I gave the store a regular five dollar bill, and kept it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/148 "2015-09-14T14:54:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I am rooting for Queen Elizabeth to last as long as possible, so her dolt of a son cannot assume the throne and expand his doltish influence as a promoter of homeopathy [and other woo](http://healthfraudoz.blogspot.com/2005/08/prince-charles-charity-promotes-health.html). He’ll actually have far less scope for promoting nonsense once he becomes king, assuming he follows precedent. Liz doesn’t endorse anything except the occasional charity. Hell, she barely says anything at all other than an inoffensive “moving forward together” speech at Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/149 "2015-09-14T18:41:20Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And it’s only since the Pert Agreement that marrying without the sovereign’s consent made one loose one’s succession rights (& only for the first 6 people in line). Under the Royal Marriage Act one retained one’s place in the succession, but the marriage itself was void in the UK & any offspring illegitimate. Blimey! I think this thread jumped the tracks from a discussion of an upcoming anniversary into a game of Mornington Crescent! And I’m behind! It’s a good thing the Perth Agreement says, just once, I’m allowed to use the Roding Valley second-cousin once removed turnstile(which is also a third cousin turnstile) and straight into an express headed for Oxford Circus! That ought to keep those inbred Jerrys off my back. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/150 "2015-09-15T00:30:10Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Blimey! I think this thread jumped the tracks from a discussion of an upcoming anniversary into a game of Mornington Crescent! And I’m behind! > > It’s a good thing the Perth Agreement says, just once, I’m allowed to use the Roding Valley second-cousin once removed turnstile(which is also a third cousin turnstile) and straight into an express headed for Oxford Circus! > > That ought to keep those inbred Jerrys off my back. But you have to remember that the Crowns of the Commonwealth Realms are now theoretically separate institutions, and that (again, theoretically) each Commonwealth Realm could choose to follow a different line of succession, or none at all. This gives the possibility for the game to ‘Jump the Pond’ (Big or Little) under the right circumstances. In the meantime, I’m using a Canadian Heraldic Distinguishment to pose an owl-bear on the Northern Line (blocking all expresses for the next 15 minutes), and taking a quick shunt to Aldwych. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/151 "2015-09-15T01:55:52Z")
Third Base!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/152 "2015-09-15T07:40:28Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > It’s a good thing the Perth Agreement says… Oh how mundane. I was just trying to work out how the negotiations of the Pert Agreement might have gone. I felt sure Barbara Windsor must have been involved… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/153 "2015-09-15T16:59:51Z")
Huzzah for HM! Wiki has even been updated: [List of monarchs in Britain by length of reign - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_in_Britain_by_length_of_reign) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/154 "2015-09-19T14:50:52Z")
This [brief history of the royal family](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNgP6d9HraI) was posted by CGP Grey the minute it became true. I kept meaning to post it here, but forgot. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620/155 "2015-09-19T16:51:54Z")
Thanks, BigT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-ii-surpassing-victoria/729620.md?page=7)