# Elizabeth Smart's father comes out as gay **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 16, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762 "2019-08-16T19:43:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/21 "2019-08-17T06:38:08Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > My Lutheran pastor is not a woman, and has a husband anyway. People of all sexualities exist in all faiths. Smells like ELCA. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/22 "2019-08-17T12:46:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I’m asking for a cite for “Strict Mormon women are indoctrinated to be submissive to men.” Let’s start with Ephesians 5:22, NIV ([cite](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A22-33&version=NIV)) > [@](#): > > 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Genesis 3:16 echoes that sentiment:([cite)](https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-3-16/) > [@](#): > > 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband,\*\* and he shall rule over thee.\*\* (bold mine) Given that Mormons tend to be faithful followers of the Bible, the above should be sufficient evidence in itself. But most Christians regard some areas of the bible as dated or irrelevant. Is that true for Mormons? Let’s look specifically at the order of obedience given to women at the Temple Endowment Ceremony, which is a Mason-like initiation ritual.for Mormons ([cite](http://packham.n4m.org/endow84.htm)) > [@](#): > > ELOHIM: Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of > you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these > witnesses at this altar that you will each observe and **keep the law of > your husbands**, and abide by his counsel in righteousness. Each of you > bow your head and say “Yes.” > > WOMEN: Yes. > > ELOHIM: That will do. > > (The female patrons now resume their seats.) Good enough? Edited: This isn’t just \*strict \*Mormonism. The Bible and the Endowment are foundational texts. Based on this, we can only imagine that _strict_ Mormonism would be a good deal more regressive. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/23 "2019-08-17T13:03:46Z")
A lot of people don’t know but Salt Lake city is a pretty liberal area. The recent mayor was a Catholic lesbian. That’s partly due to a lot of transplants moving in like other western areas. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/24 "2019-08-17T13:54:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why is this even noteworthy? The Smart family has been out of the news for what, over a decade? There are millions of other gay folks in the country who are just as notable. Out of the news, yes, but Elizabeth still does activist work for trafficking/kidnapping. She also was doing something with Jayme Closs (the girl in Wisconsin that was kidnapped). But other than that, yes she does appear to stay out of the limelight. What she does do, she doesn’t appear to be doing for attention. I saw some of the headlines, but didn’t click on any of them. Where/how/why was this announced in some way that the media even knew about it? Looking around, it appears he made a post about it on facebook…or sent his friends and family a message about it on facebook. Leaving why out of it, I’m assuming the media picked it up from there. I guess that makes sense. > [@dropzone](#): > > But still, so what if he’s gay? Agreed. At least ‘[huge actor] is gay’ is becoming a less common headline. ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/25 "2019-08-17T15:23:59Z")
Whats odd about this? My dad “came out” after 26 years of marriage. He was raised southern Baptist and converted to catholic when he married Mom. I am pretty sure Mom knew after a while but good catholic girls did not get divorced. Eventually Dad did come out, his partner was a small town family doctor who had also been married for 25+ years. Family gatherings were a hoot! Mom and Dad eventually got divorced, my Grandma would not speak to my mom for 3-4 years, until my Mom got an annulment from the bishop. I guess some of you are right!! I really am a bastard! When Dad passed away his partner took my family out for a remembrance dinner, Mom and he traded endless “Dad” stories. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/26 "2019-08-17T20:57:47Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Smells like ELCA. It is! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/27 "2019-08-17T23:07:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why is this even noteworthy? The Smart family has been out of the news for what, over a decade? There are millions of other gay folks in the country who are just as notable. That was my exact thought when I saw the headline yesterday. I’m not sure why this made the news and other then Mr. Smart himself, I’m not sure who really cares. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/28 "2019-08-18T20:35:15Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Given that Mormons tend to be faithful followers of the Bible, the above should be sufficient evidence in itself. If Mormons were actually faithful followers of the Bible, they wouldn’t be Mormons in the first place. Joseph Smith claimed to have been started on his religious journey by an angel named Moroni. But– “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/29 "2019-08-19T01:34:49Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > When Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped, there was speculation by some that her Mormon upbringing made her easier to control by her captors. Strict Mormon women are indoctrinated to be submissive to men. What Elizabeth herself stated was is that it was because of the constant teachings in the Mormon church that women and girls who aren’t virgins are no longer valued. They have lessons for young girls where the teacher will take a rose then crush it and ask who wants it now or will take some gum, chew it some and ask who wants it. Seriously, who wants used chewing gum? And who wants a “used” woman? My cousin was stranger raped at gunpoint when she was 14 and my uncle wouldn’t let my aunt take her to the hospital or report the crime. This was back in the 70s, but there are still a lot of people who believe this. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Let’s start with Ephesians 5:22, NIV ([cite](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A22-33&version=NIV)). . . > Given that Mormons tend to be faithful followers of the Bible, the above should be sufficient evidence in itself. But most Christians regard some areas of the bible as dated or irrelevant. Is that true for Mormons? Mormons really don’t look to the Bible for answers as intently as other Christian faiths. First, modern prophets trump ancient ones. Second, Joseph Smith taught that the Bible had been corrupted by the “professors” of religion, e.g. the clergy of other denominations who were influenced by Satan. You will never win an argument with a Mormon by quoting Bible scriptures. They simple don’t care, unless it agrees with what they say. [quote] Let’s look specifically at the order of obedience given to women at the Temple Endowment Ceremony, which is a Mason-like initiation ritual.for Mormons ([cite](http://packham.n4m.org/endow84.htm)) > [@](#): > > ELOHIM: Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of > you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these > witnesses at this altar that you will each observe and keep the law of > your husbands, and abide by his counsel in righteousness. Each of you > bow your head and say “Yes.” > > WOMEN: Yes. > > ELOHIM: That will do. > > (The female patrons now resume their seats.) This is one of the reasons that my mother stayed with my abusive father, despite the fact that he should have been imprisoned for his abuse. Mormons believe that a man becomes resurrected directly from the voice of Jesus, but women must be resurrected from the voice of their husbands. My uncle was excommunicated for kiddie porn, and my aunt complained that she was punished as well. Note that apparently the temple ceremony has been changed and women don’t make this same explicit promise, but the underlying message is still the same. Not all of Mormonism is as fucked up as that, and not all Mormons are fucked up, but the religion was founded by a pedophile and its ickiness can be seen in the inability to stop abuse. This thread is a good reminder of how repressive that society can be. Coming out as gay is such nonnews for everyone else, but it’s still news for Mormons and ex-Mormons. Again, unless you were once a member of such a insular group, you really can’t appreciate the importance of someone famous leaving the faith. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/30 "2019-08-19T02:06:07Z")
The last two posts are GD, in my opinion, with Flyer’s first sentence being his opinion. TokyoBayer’s post includes the fact that what he quoted is not part of the Endowment. He’s also ignoring plenty of comments made by church leaders that victims of rape are not “damaged goods”. If this thread gets moved to GD, I may make further posts to it. Otherwise, I’m out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/31 "2019-08-19T07:03:04Z")
> [@ThisSpaceForRent](#): > > Mom and Dad eventually got divorced, my Grandma would not speak to my mom for 3-4 years, until my Mom got an annulment from the bishop. I guess some of you are right!! I really am a bastard! No, annulment doesn’t make the children illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/32 "2019-08-19T11:25:40Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > That was my exact thought when I saw the headline yesterday. I’m not sure why this made the news and other then Mr. Smart himself, I’m not sure who really cares. Well, folks care enough to make this a thread with thirty plus posts. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/33 "2019-08-20T19:46:12Z")
I think it’s newsworthy, if not exactly a Page 1 above-the-fold screamer. Glad to see his daughter is standing by him. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/34 "2019-08-20T20:06:06Z")
It’s newsworthy according to the current standards of what qualifies as news. But it’s sad that it qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762/35 "2019-08-20T20:23:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Smart also called his wife, Lois, “loyal” and said she is an “extraordinary mother.” > > “I deeply regret the excruciating pain this has caused her. Hurting her was never my intent. While our marriage will end, my love for Lois and everyone in my family is eternal,” the newspaper reported he wrote. :rolleyes: Yeah, regret. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-smarts-father-comes-out-as-gay/838762.md?page=1)