# Elizabeth Warren 2020. How do you feel about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028 "2018-09-09T00:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/281 "2018-10-16T15:55:05Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > she thought she was dealing with a normal politician like McCain or Romney. Instead she is dealing with a moron con artist. It’s strange. Trump made a clumsy and offensive attack on her. It’s like she fixed that clumsy trap, made it effective and deadly, and then stepped in it. I rule this one a suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/282 "2018-10-16T15:59:05Z")
So, the one-drop rule is in effect? If instead of some South American Indian blood she’d had sub-Saharan African genes in the same proportion, could she call herself black? I also have family lore about Peruvian native blood of about the same proportion, but calling myself and Indian or even mestizo would be wrong. My kids, through my mother-in-law’s side may be even 1/16th Indian and no way are they Native or Mestizo. In my thoroughly white, Spanish/Italian descent family we might joke about being Incas, but it’s a joke. It’s like all those who find some Scandinavian genes in the test fancy themselves mighty Vikings rather than farmers. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/283 "2018-10-16T16:00:39Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > she thought she was dealing with a normal politician like McCain or Romney. Instead she is dealing with a moron con artist. Sorry for the double post, but if she didn’t know by know the type of person/politician Trump is, she’s amazingly disconnected from reality. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/284 "2018-10-16T16:03:27Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > So, the one-drop rule is in effect? > If instead of some South American Indian blood she’d had sub-Saharan African genes in the same proportion, could she call herself black? > I also have family lore about Peruvian native blood of about the same proportion, but calling myself and Indian or even mestizo would be wrong. My kids, through my mother-in-law’s side may be even 1/16th Indian and no way are they Native or Mestizo. > In my thoroughly white, Spanish/Italian descent family we might joke about being Incas, but it’s a joke. > It’s like all those who find some Scandinavian genes in the test fancy themselves mighty Vikings rather than farmers. What the heck are you reading? Nothing in your post has anything to do with this story. She’s not claiming to be an Indian and certainly not a South American Indian. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/285 "2018-10-16T16:14:16Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Sorry for the double post, but if she didn’t know by know the type of person/politician Trump is, she’s amazingly disconnected from reality. either that or she got very bad advice and took that bad advice. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/286 "2018-10-16T16:17:18Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Wrong again. Reread your own #214. I’ll bet even Trumpists — the few that have some self-awareness — realize your claim is preposterous. This Trump rant wasn’t any sort of ordinary speech. > > I’ll admit there are a few whose prattle isn’t awfully dissimilar: Sarah Palin, Alex Jones, a few of the FoxNews assholes. (Is that why you think Trump’s speech is normal? Your reference point is rants on FoxNews and InfoWars?) > > Start with the constant repetition of the intended insult “Pocahontas.” You cannot name a single politician who prattles such a rude and silly insult over and over, can you? Even comedians like Stephen Colbert don’t do that, but you don’t want to pretend Colbert is “an average politician infesting DC.” Then you’d have to defend Trump’s top mentor, vomit-mouth Sean Hannity. > > And that’s just one word, “Pocahontas.” IIRC, every single sentence of Trump’s rant was stupid and rude. If finding a similar Youtube not by Trump is too impossible a mission, point to _any_ part of this Trump rant that was _not_ a moronic insult. This should be a challenge you can win! I didn’t have a transcript nor did I even finish this despicable shit-talk. > > Or retract your claim. Blame it on the mushrooms you ate, or the cat pounding on your keyboard. Or, are you tempted to emulate your own idol? He who just moves from one preposterous lie to another, never bothering to defend his claims, just doubling-down with ever more preposterous lies? > > Or — and this you’re quite likely to do, 2nd only to continuing your complete refusal to back-up your claim — _blame me._ I used an insulting word, or made a grammatical error in my challenge, so you’re off the hook. Makes great sense, hunh? Trump can rant and rave like Alex Jones, but it’s all OK because septimus misplaced a comma. Got it. What you have here is a failure to understand. You asked me my opinion. Specifically, you said, “I’m curious what you think.” I told you what I thought. I made it clear that it was just my opinion by including phrases like “in my view”. There is no “claim” that I need to “defend” there, all you wild imaginations aside. Forgetting that Mark Judge had been interviewed by the FBI or mistaking [43%](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html) for 38% was a bit more than a misplaced comma. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/287 "2018-10-16T16:28:33Z")
and now he called Stormy horseface on twitter. Just shows how far out from a normal politician he is. Somehow I don’t see Bush, Obama, Reagan , Carter, etc. saying that in public. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/288 "2018-10-16T17:09:45Z")
She screwed up. The question is, how bad is the damage? > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Warren might have actually made things worse with her DNA gambit [https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/politics/elizabeth-warren-donald-trump-pocahontas/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/politics/elizabeth-warren-donald-trump-pocahontas/index.html) and > [@](#): > > I am a Native American. I have some questions for Elizabeth Warren [https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/opinions/elizabeth-warren-native-heritage-where-has-she-been-moya-smith/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/opinions/elizabeth-warren-native-heritage-where-has-she-been-moya-smith/index.html) and > [@](#): > > Elizabeth Warren’s big mistake [https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/opinions/elizabeth-warrens-big-mistake-maltby/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/15/opinions/elizabeth-warrens-big-mistake-maltby/index.html) And that is just CNN. I won’t even look at Fox. My Native friends on Facebook are all talking about this, and not positively for Warren (anecdotal, not data note). Not that they are a big demographic (and in North Dakota it is even worse), but it doesn’t help and it will dog her on the campaign trail. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/289 "2018-10-16T17:13:40Z")
I guess if you ignore that it would have dogged her on the election trail regardless, it seems like some big mistake. But we all know Trump would have been talking about Pocahontas even if she hadn’t done the DNA test. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/290 "2018-10-16T17:32:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Or retract your claim. Blame it on the mushrooms you ate, or the cat pounding on your keyboard. Or, are you tempted to emulate your own idol? He who just moves from one preposterous lie to another, never bothering to defend his claims, just doubling-down with ever more preposterous lies? Dial it back. Do not appear to accuse other posters of lying. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/291 "2018-10-16T17:41:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I guess if you ignore that it would have dogged her on the election trail regardless, it seems like some big mistake. But we all know Trump would have been talking about Pocahontas even if she hadn’t done the DNA test. Sure - but now you have Native Americans talking, and they will be given the microphone. The DNA test makes it look worse, as it shows that she has negligible Native ancestry. When you get negative above-the-fold coverage on CNN plus a couple of opinion pieces calling you out, you should re-think your strategy. But I am not her campaign consultant. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/292 "2018-10-16T17:48:52Z")
Releasing these DNA results may have been a political tactical error (in treating Trump’s dishonest and dishonorable attacks with some semblence of legitimacy) – not coordinating with various Native American advocacy groups beforehand in crafting her statement certainly was. But from a political perspective, it’s far better that she made this mistake before the 2020 campaign starts, if she plans to run, then during that campaign cycle. This gives her time to patch up any hard feelings from Native American advocacy groups, and even if it was a mistake overall, at least it defangs the already dishonest and dishonorable attacks by Trump about her ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/293 "2018-10-16T17:51:08Z")
I am surprised that she decided to wrestle with a pig, but it’s her decision to make. I agree that it’s better done now than as part of the campaign. If it was a mistake, it can more easily be put behind her. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/294 "2018-10-16T17:51:54Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Sure - but now you have Native Americans talking, and they will be given the microphone. The DNA test makes it look worse, as it shows that she has negligible Native ancestry. When you get negative above-the-fold coverage on CNN plus a couple of opinion pieces calling you out, you should re-think your strategy. > > But I am not her campaign consultant. Let’s see how much above the fold coverage it gets in 2 years, if she actually runs. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/295 "2018-10-16T18:15:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Let’s see how much above the fold coverage it gets in 2 years, if she actually runs. The only way doing a DNA test and releasing the results makes any sense is if she’s planning to run. As the reaction to her releasing the results shows, she is not the right candidate for 2020. IMHO of all the people usually mentioned as potential candidates for the Democratic nomination, I think she’s the only one on the list that I would say is guaranteed to lose to Trump. I’m not saying any of the others would definitely beat him, but as of now, they all have chance. All of them, that is, except Warren. When it comes down to it I think she would remind too many people of Clinton. I’m not opposed to women in general running, and I think, for example, that Kamala Harris, Tammy Duckworth, or even Oprah could possibly beat Trump under the right set of circumstances, but I just don’t see Warren being able to pull off a victory. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/296 "2018-10-16T20:41:00Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > There’s so much wrong and confused in this post. > > First, the DNA claim. It sounds like the tester put the level as between 1 in 64 and 1 in 1024. Why go with the minimum, rather than the maximum or average? _ **Oh, I know why:** _ because your goal is to disparage Warren rather than to seek truth or be objective. > > 1/64 Indian is exactly what would be expected if Neoma Ocie were half-Indian. Since Dopers seem better at repeating confused errors than learning simple facts, let me repeat a key fact: Warren’s family claim was not some vague myth — it was always the specific fact that her mother’s mother’s father’s father was the son of Neoma Ocie, who was christened Sarah Smith by her apparent stepfather. Neoma’s wedding license allegedly shows her as “Cherokee.” > > And, BTW, I strongly think it to be quite false that a large plurality of Americans have Native American blood. My ancestors came to the New World in the 17th-, 18th- and early 19th-centuries; my DNA shows Zero Native American. Others? > > _ **Finally, and most importantly, Warren did not attempt to claim any advantage from her tiny amount of Indian blood.** _ It was more of a conversation piece, as those whose hobby is genealogy or old family lore will appreciate. (I’ve joked on this board about my “Scottish sense of humor” even though the one time I had a chance to holiday in Edinburgh on the company’s dollar I just went to Heathrow and said “I’m tired, Scotty. Beam me home!”) > > If Warren isn’t allowed to feel a little frisson of fun for 1.6% Cherokee blood, I wonder about me and my tinge of irrational pride that I share 0.1% of the DNA of the great abolitionist John Brown. No, that’s not enough to affect my character. Genealogy is a hobby, a source of harmless conversation; is this so hard to understand? > > It was Pompous Asshole who made such an asinine deal of it all. And now the 38% rejoice that she fell for his trolling? :smack: The 38% are just assholes, idiots. (I except the Trumpists arguing in the thread of course.) The articles I saw said 1/1024. If it could have been 1/64, I stand corrected. Further, I thought she listed “Native American” in an attempt to gain minority status for some grant or college admission years ago. I have no personal stake in this, so I don’t care. But I do agree with John Mace. Most white Americans have family stories about having “Indian blood” or “Cherokee blood” in the family. I was told the same thing, but Ancestry DNA showed 0%. I agree that genealogy is mostly harmless fun. However, if you were a U.S. Senator and stated that the blood coursing in your veins contained the same spirit of freedom that John Brown dream of, and it was 0.1%, then I could agree with mocking you for it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/297 "2018-10-16T20:45:30Z")
They have genetic tests that can detect spirit of freedom now? And heck, genetic proportion isn’t necessarily the same thing as portion of ancestry, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/298 "2018-10-16T20:46:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The articles I saw said 1/1024. If it could have been 1/64, I stand corrected. Further, I thought she listed “Native American” in an attempt to gain minority status for some grant or college admission years ago. I have no personal stake in this, so I don’t care. > > But I do agree with John Mace. Most white Americans have family stories about having “Indian blood” or “Cherokee blood” in the family. I was told the same thing, but Ancestry DNA showed 0%. > > I agree that genealogy is mostly harmless fun. However, if you were a U.S. Senator and stated that the blood coursing in your veins contained the same spirit of freedom that John Brown dream of, and it was 0.1%, then I could agree with mocking you for it. This is the problem. The partisan press have been misrepresenting this story for something like twenty years. That’s why I’m glad she had the test done. 1/1024 was the low end. But really, she already had historical documentation of her ancestry. It may not sound like much, but what’s important in the story isn’t the amount, but the heritage. She’s descended from a man who rejected his parents’ bigotry against even one drop of partial Native ancestry to marry a mixed woman. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/299 "2018-10-16T21:02:54Z")
She’s ending up getting more mockery than benefit by doing this. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/300 "2018-10-16T21:06:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > She’s ending up getting more mockery than benefit by doing this. Yup, politically at least, it was a mistake. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028.md?page=16)