# Elizabeth Warren 2020. How do you feel about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 9, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028 "2018-09-09T00:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/61 "2018-09-11T03:27:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the point is being missed, which is that Hillary lost the election, and she did so in large part because she wasn’t Obama. Black voters did not turn out to vote for her the way they did for Obama, and not because they voted for anyone else, least of all Trump. They didn’t vote at all. So now the idea is to nominate another extremely un-charismatic old white liberal woman. > > How do you convince people to vote for her? “It’s her turn”? “Anyone who won’t vote for her is sexist/racist/homophobe”? “Anybody but Trump”? The same strategy in 2020 as in 2016, IOW? > > It was said IIRC of the Bourbon monarchy after Napoleon was deposed the first time that “they had learned nothing, and forgotten nothing”. > > Regards, > Shodan The reduction in black turnout combined with lower black votes (I think Obama got 95% of the black vote vs 89% for Hillary), combined with the education gap among whites was a big part of why Hillary lost the midwest. There are lots of blacks as well as lots of whites w/o a college education in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. I do not know how the next candidate can rectify this. Another black president probably won’t see increased black participation (IMO) because there is a world of difference between the first black president and the second. And I’m not sure how to stem the losses among whites w/o a college education. But the dems need to figure these two problems out to avoid losing the midwest again in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/62 "2018-09-11T09:31:29Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Kamala Harris on the ticket for the Democratic Party as President, and probably as Veep, is just as much of a losing proposition as Warren, Sanders or Clinton. > > The fact so many of my fellow leftist Democrats fail to get this point is exactly why I am more certain every day that Donald J. Trump will be reelected in 2020. I’m glad you omitted Biden from your losers — he’s the only one of the Four that would have a chance. But he’d be running at age 77. Ronald Reagan was only 73 when he ran for re-election. I’m not eager to bet on Trump’s re-election: even if he doesn’t have a thrombosis in brain or heart, he’s likely to have [a Captain Queeg moment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlV3oQ3pLA0) severe enough to disturb even some of the 38% ! Structure the bet so that I win if _any_ Republican wins the 2020 Presidency _or_ Democrat Bill McRaven and you’ll probably get me to gamble. Two bottles of Regency Brandy? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/63 "2018-09-11T09:53:37Z")
Captain Queeg was a character played by Humphrey Bogart in _The Caine Mutiny_. Queeg had become somewhat deranged, and in a climactic scene the derangment becomes clearly visible. > [@septimus](#): > > Trump …'s likely to have [a Captain Queeg moment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlV3oQ3pLA0) severe enough to disturb even some of the 38% ! Before someone else beats me to it, I admit that Trump has already gone far beyond the Queeg derangement in the film’s climax. I was speaking metaphorically, imagining (or rather hoping _not_ to imagine) a level of derangement _far beyond_ that portrayed by Bogart, with a televised Trump blatantly insane enough to dismay even the 38% ! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/64 "2018-09-11T11:32:43Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > p.s. I found a Michelle 2020 pin the other day. I’m wearing it. 🙂 No. Just…no. Look, I like and respect Michelle O a lot and in the unlikely event she ended up in the role she’d do a much better job than the current incumbent but…no. > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I happen to have a great deal of respect for Warren but she is far to much of a scold to ever win a national election. “Scold”. There’s that word again. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I dunno. Maybe the 3rd time is a charm for nominating a MA liberal. Of course she can claim she’s teally a Southerner from Oklahoma. But I’m not sure that " Southerner who became a Yankee" is a plus but you never know! What - like the Bush family? No, wait, they went the other way. > [@Lamoral](#): > > Beto will come up against the “greenhorn” aspect and Trump will turn THAT into the primary issue of his campaign. Compared to the experienced politician currently in the role? > [@Bricker](#): > > It’s terrible, the way you have to keep taking the voters into account, amirite? Perhaps the Democrats should take a page from the Republicans - instead of alienating opposition voters, actively disenfranchise them or at least place every obstacle possible to voting in their way. It’s much easier than, you know, having policies people want to vote for. As for Warren - if she runs and is nominated I will vote for her, but I think her particular skill set is better suited to the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/65 "2018-09-11T12:34:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I do not know how the next candidate can rectify this. Another black president probably won’t see increased black participation (IMO) because there is a world of difference between the first black president and the second. WADR I disagree. Any black Democrat will get 95+% of the black vote in the general election. I think that’s almost a given. The idea that the second black President would get less support comes IMO from non-blacks. To get general support, a black Presidential nominee has to be charismatic, to attract non-black votes. A non-black Presidential nominee won’t get the automatic black vote. Which was Hillary’s problem, and is Warren’s. People don’t like to be scolded - they need a better reason to vote than that people will call them names if they don’t. Obama, for all his flaws, realized that. “Hope and change” worked - “deplorables” didn’t. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/66 "2018-09-11T13:17:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s terrible, the way you have to keep taking the voters into account, amirite? Much easier to just keep all of the wrong ones from voting, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/67 "2018-09-11T13:18:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which was Hillary’s problem, and is Warren’s. People don’t like to be scolded Scolded, you say? Hmm … what’s the common factor there? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/68 "2018-09-11T13:28:37Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > She was born in 1949 which will make her 71. I don’t mean to be ageist, but holy shit, can’t we find someone with \*only \*4 or 5 decades under their belt to run the country? Ronald Reagan was 69 years old when he was elected President and turned 70 after he took office. > > I mean, I would vote for a peanut before voting for Trump v2, but still sheeple… My feelings exactly. I love her to death and would vote for her if nominated, gladly … but the Democrats needs to turn to a new generation. I just cringe when I hear about her, or Biden, or Bernie, considering 2020. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/69 "2018-09-11T14:43:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Scolded, you say? Hmm … what’s the common factor there? :dubious: [“Unbecoming” behavior?](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/08/27/race-tolman-apologizes-for-calling-healey-unbecoming/EfQ9crNxOf91rWKB1yHamM/story.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/70 "2018-09-11T16:48:14Z")
Lemme ‘splain it to ya, darlin’ … ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/71 "2018-09-11T17:46:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … what was so special about Bill Clinton that he did so much better with white voters than the candidates in every other presidential election from 1980 to 2016? What kept college educated white voters from reverting to their pre-Clinton behavior of heavy GOP lean like non-college educated white voters did? Sorry to go back so far in the thread (I was offline all weekend), but I think what was so special about Bill Clinton was that he didn’t have an entire political party, national news network and army of internet trolls telling millions of uneducated voters that his party was nothing but a conspiracy to take away their guns and make the US a communist workers’ paradise for brown people. Whomever the Dems nominate will have to fight back against this current of ignorance (that gained enormous strength even from 2012-2016) to swing a few Midwestern states a few percentage points blue. It can be done, but not IMHO by a 71-year-old Massachusetts woman who’s already been Hillaried. ---
**Author:** ![HamptonsLax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@HamptonsLax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HamptonsLax)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/72 "2018-09-11T19:19:57Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Those differences were more than enough to hand Clinton the victory in multiple southern states and the overall election. Thing about 1992 was that Clinton could’ve won the election without many Southern states. He won many states that wound up being blue from 1992-now that Dukakis lost, like Illinois, California, New Jersey, Connecticut, and states that Trump barely won in 2016, like Pennsylvania. “Tough on crime” was something Democrats were itching to change their bad image on back then; now its the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/73 "2018-09-11T22:14:28Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Sorry to go back so far in the thread (I was offline all weekend), but I think what was so special about Bill Clinton was that he didn’t have an entire political party, national news network and army of internet trolls telling millions of uneducated voters that his party was nothing but a conspiracy to take away their guns and make the US a communist workers’ paradise for brown people. I think you have a point here, were people even so rapidly pro-gun and anti-brown then? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/74 "2018-09-11T22:33:42Z")
> [@j666](#): > > I think you have a point here, were people even so rapidly pro-gun and anti-brown then? Of course there were people who would vote based on actual or perceived friendliness to gun rights, and of course we’ve always had racists. But we didn’t have one party demonizing the other as actively, subversively un-American, and we didn’t have the insane tribalism that makes it so easy to ignore facts, decency and common sense. And, as I’ve said, we didn’t have a major news network (with all the credibility that status entails) whose mission has nothing to do with news and everything to do with fanning the flames of that tribalism. In other words, Bill Clinton had the advantage of a relatively level playing field – along with abundant charisma and relatability. The next Democratic candidate will be fighting uphill, so he or she had better have at least as much charisma and relatability. I’m not sure Warren has either. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/75 "2018-09-11T22:41:45Z")
Any Democrat, of any race, is going to get 90+% of the share of the black vote. The problem isn’t what percentage of the voters you win, it’s what percentage of the eligible voters turn out. A lot of people turned out for Obama’s historic win who haven’t before or since, and that’s definitely one of the many factors that led to Clinton doing worse than Obama. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/76 "2018-09-12T00:13:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Any Democrat, of any race, is going to get 90+% of the share of the black vote. The problem isn’t what percentage of the voters you win, it’s what percentage of the eligible voters turn out. A lot of people turned out for Obama’s historic win who haven’t before or since, and that’s definitely one of the many factors that led to Clinton doing worse than Obama. Though by far the most important factor is how few people like or trusted Hillary. She was a terrible choice. I mean good lord, she lost to freaking Trump. The Dems must find a more likable candidate this time. Warren doesn’t play well except to the die-hard Dems. She could and probably will lose to Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/77 "2018-09-12T00:27:35Z")
She is a far better person than the many many many Americans who will find stupid reasons to not vote for her. Sorry, Liz, but I’m still hoping you’ll be Treasury Secretary some day. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/78 "2018-09-12T00:57:20Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Sorry to go back so far in the thread (I was offline all weekend), but I think what was so special about Bill Clinton was that he didn’t have an entire political party, national news network and army of internet trolls telling millions of uneducated voters that his party was nothing but a conspiracy to take away their guns and make the US a communist workers’ paradise for brown people. … And _all other_ Democratic presidential nominees from 1980 through 2016 did? This is not a compare and contrast just of the two Clintons. No other Democratic presidential nominee in those 46 years did as well with non-college educated whites as he did, twice. Not even close to it. Does your explanation explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/79 "2018-09-12T13:20:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And _all other_ Democratic presidential nominees from 1980 through 2016 did? > > This is not a compare and contrast just of the two Clintons. No other Democratic presidential nominee in those 46 years did as well with non-college educated whites as he did, twice. Not even close to it. Does your explanation explain that? If your point is that he also had the advantage of being something of a good ol’ boy, I’ll concede that. It’s easy to write off every other Dem candidate with a quick explanation of why they did less well with non-college-educated whites: [ul] [li]Carter: failed first term[/li][li]Mondale: trounced by Reagan juggernaut[/li][li]Dukakis: Northeast intellectual[/li][li]Gore: Clinton fatigue, stuffy[/li][li]Kerry: Northeast intellectual[/li][li]Obama: black[/li][li]Hillary: Where do you start?[/li][/ul] But my point was that, whetever intangibles he had going for him, the 2020 candidate is going to need by the truckload, due to the headwinds of willful ignorance that Bill didn’t have to face. ---
**Author:** ![GoPostie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@GoPostie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoPostie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028/80 "2018-09-12T13:26:18Z")
If the Democrats put up a beltway careerist, they may as well save themselves the money. At this point in US politics, Stormy would have a better chance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020-how-do-you-feel-about-it/821028.md?page=5)