# Elizabeth Warren 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 17, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800 "2019-08-17T17:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/241 "2019-09-15T19:47:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Saying the same thing 2 or 3 times doesn’t make it true. If I lend a junkie money to visit his family but he spends it on heroin then, like it or not, I funded that heroin purchase. > > I thought you were a smart guy but your understanding of the “bail-out” is confused. Are their partisan blinkers getting in your way? Please tell me how we are not already “bailing out” college borrowers, if loans that must be repaid with interest are “bailouts”. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/242 "2019-09-15T20:31:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Ok, the heroin is the bonuses in your analogy, right?.. Well the heroine is clearly supposed to be Warren … ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/243 "2019-09-15T20:36:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … > > 1. On the leftish end, there’s been _plenty_ of competition between Sanders and Warren and Buttigieg and Harris (who’s really trying to split the difference), but after most of a year of campaigning, yes, it’s shaking out: Buttigieg’s got good ideas, but he’s inexperienced; … > > Not sure who would get a shot if not for Warren, except maybe Beto, who would have been able to get into the race back in the spring if he’d been able to articulate what he contributed to the race that nobody else was. He’s finally found that, but he may have missed the bus… I like Mayor Pete, but we have to face facts- a openly gay man cant win in 2020. I hope that changes, and i think it will, maybe by 2028, and then I hope he is still ready to run. Beto just killed his chances and maybe the chances of any Dem candidate winning. Door to door gun confiscation is exactly the boogie man the thinking Dem candidates have been trying to tell the 70 million gun owners the dems don’t want. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/244 "2019-09-15T20:55:37Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Really? 80% of my high school teachers were male. Right–which is why “strict teacher” is a criticism leveled so often at male politicians. > [@](#): > > ETA: Any kind of hostile interaction between the crowd and a major presidential candidate is never a “nothingburger”, whether the fault lies with the candidate, the audience, or some murky grey area. You can say that all you like, but it’s patently absurd. The only thing keeping it from being patently absurd is that it’s true. You’re the only one going on about this, and you’re incredulous that it’s a nothingburger, but you refuse to accept any explanation of why it is, except for some conspiracy theory or something. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/245 "2019-09-15T21:32:01Z")
😕 This stuff is just NOT that complicated. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Ok, the heroin is the bonuses in your analogy, right? What is the family visit representing? The U.S.G. overpaid for paper to keep banks solvent. The banks spent some of the money intended to ensure their solvency on bonuses for the very gamblers and fraudsters who helped cause the crisis in the first place. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > Please tell me how we are not already “bailing out” college borrowers, if loans that must be repaid with interest are “bailouts”. If the free market determines that a piece of paper is worth $43, and we buy it for $43, that’s not a “bail-out” — it’s an investment. If we pay $100 for the piece of paper worth $43, _that_ is a “bail-out.” I don’t know how to help you guys Google this. It’s _very_ basic. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/246 "2019-09-15T21:35:10Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 This stuff is just NOT that complicated. > > The U.S.G. overpaid for paper to keep banks solvent. The banks spent some of the money intended to ensure their solvency on bonuses for the very gamblers and fraudsters who helped cause the crisis in the first place. What were they supposed to do with the money that they failed to do? This isn’t a complicated question. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/247 "2019-09-15T21:59:57Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > What were they supposed to do with the money that they failed to do? This isn’t a complicated question. Here ‘they’ means the banks? 😕 They did what they did, to nobody’s surprise. Greedy rich bankers are greedy rich bankers. That’s not complicated. The objection is _not_ to greedy banks doing what greedy banks do. It was to the _government_ funneling taxpayer dollars to feed that greed. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/248 "2019-09-15T23:15:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What I’d like to see is a “debate” — perhaps on Saturday Night Live — between real Democratic candidate(s) and an imposter “Donald Trump.” The Trump would recite actual Trump words, and make new dimwit insults trying hard to imitate the real Brat-in-Chief. The Democrats would get all the best punchlines. Hilarious. > > (Or would this risk helping GOP strategists understand that they dare not let their oaf share a debate stage with a real human being?) The SNL idea would certainly be entertaining. But the question of Trump’s willingness to stand on a debate stage with particular candidates is interesting. Trump loves bullying others, so he’ll want to do it…but he’s going to have trouble bullying a lot of those folks. I can’t picture most of them cowering before his insults. I worry a bit about Joe, who might clam up (displaying disdain) in the face of Trump’s egregious rudeness. I suspect that disdain isn’t an effective counter to Mr. Nasty. Meh—too soon to speculate, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/249 "2019-09-15T23:31:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > You are the one alleging some kind of gender based conspiracy, when as I have said over and over this would be an equally big deal if a man did it. WTF are you on about? I am quite clearly alleging _no conspiracy at all_. That is, in fact, the entire point of my last two exchanges with you. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > And I don’t at all believe there is any conspiracy in the sense of meeting and plotting and colluding. Just that as someone else noted on the thread, the reporters covering this don’t have a desire to make Warren look bad, so they quietly avoid drawing attention to things like this. If what she did is not anything to be ashamed of, why not cover it? Regardless of whether you think it is a demerit for her politically, it’s an interesting and odd thing that happened during the debate. The only reason _not_ to mention it is that you don’t want to make her look bad. Or (quite obvious to everyone but you) _they just don’t think it’s a big deal_. In order for your narrative to work, every reporter from every newspaper and TV station and blog would have to “quietly avoid drawing attention to things like this.” Do you honestly think \*every single one of them \*is backing Warren in this way? Really? Really truly? I don’t know why I’m arguing with you about this. You’ve quite clearly got a screw loose when it comes to your analysis of Warren in this election. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/250 "2019-09-17T11:32:02Z")
Another sign she is the lead progressive candidate. The Working Families Party endorsed Sanders in 2016 but have now endorsed Warren for 2020. Sanders fans are furious but it’s a sign that his 2016 M.O. of being an outsider from nowhere yelling and berating Wall Street and the millionaires and billionaires isn’t enough now Warren is in who has a better legislative record, able to build relationships and can detail her policy plans beyond aggressive soundbites. > She still has a big problem with black voters and to overtake Biden she has a lot of work to do in that respect. But she is a solid second right now. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/251 "2019-09-17T21:22:04Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > WTF are you on about? I am quite clearly alleging _no conspiracy at all_. That is, in fact, the entire point of my last two exchanges with you. > > Or (quite obvious to everyone but you) _they just don’t think it’s a big deal_. In order for your narrative to work, every reporter from every newspaper and TV station and blog would have to “quietly avoid drawing attention to things like this.” Do you honestly think \*every single one of them \*is backing Warren in this way? Really? Really truly? > > I don’t know why I’m arguing with you about this. You’ve quite clearly got a screw loose when it comes to your analysis of Warren in this election. Riiiight, no one who didn’t see a debate would find it interesting to read a sentence or two about how the leading candidate on stage _got laughed at_ by the audience and responded by _rebuking_ that audience. Nothing to see here! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/252 "2019-09-17T23:18:50Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > … The Working Families Party endorsed Sanders in 2016 but have now endorsed Warren for 2020. Sanders fans are furious but it’s a sign that his 2016 M.O. of being an outsider from nowhere yelling and berating Wall Street and the millionaires and billionaires isn’t enough now … (It’s just “billionaires” now.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/253 "2019-09-20T05:30:11Z")
Warren’s rivals are starting to attack her more and more: > **[Elizabeth Warren’s Rivals Start to Turn on Her](https://www.yahoo.com/news/elizabeth-warren-rivals-start-turn-221004338.html)** > > Heidi Gutman/GettySen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) has mostly been coasting to her position atop the 2020 Democratic primary field, often dodging the scrums other candidates have engaged in on the trail and the debate stage. But as she’s risen, her... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/254 "2019-09-20T17:55:59Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Warren’s rivals are starting to attack her more and more: > > [Elizabeth Warren’s Rivals Start to Turn on Her](https://www.yahoo.com/news/elizabeth-warren-rivals-start-turn-221004338.html) That’s so very wrong. Crabs in a bucket. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/255 "2019-09-20T18:18:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s so very wrong. Crabs in a bucket. That is pretty much nothing and the headline is kinda full of crap. You want the most delicate of tea parties it seems, excepting of course criticism of Beto’s gun grab. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/256 "2019-09-20T18:23:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Well the heroine is clearly supposed to be Warren … No, _Lorde_ is the [pure heroine](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/816B2lsClnL._SX355_.jpg). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/257 "2019-09-20T19:08:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s so very wrong. Crabs in a bucket. Ah if only we could go back to the good old days of the last set of GOP debates when dick size was the topic du jour ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/258 "2019-09-20T19:10:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s so very wrong. Crabs in a bucket. That’s wrong both strategically and as a metaphor. Strategically, Warren needs to be tested. If she wins the nomination (as I hope), she’ll be going up against one of the most powerfully dishonest political machines humanity has ever designed. We’re talking light years more powerful than North Korea, since NK doesn’t actually need to convince people that they’re right, they just need to convince people to comply. I really want Warren to win, but that’s contingent on her being able to handle herself when the knives come out. Attacks on her, fair or otherwise, are essential. As a metaphor, the “crabs in a bucket” aren’t trying to gain anything for themselves, they’re just trying to prevent anyone else from succeeding. The Dems attacking her now are doing so either because they want the nomination, or they want their preferred candidate to win it. In a zero sum game, attacks are strategically valid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/259 "2019-09-20T23:22:47Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That is pretty much nothing and the headline is kinda full of crap. You want the most delicate of tea parties it seems, excepting of course criticism of Beto’s gun grab. Attack the _issue_, not the \*person. \* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/260 "2019-09-20T23:24:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > > As a metaphor, the “crabs in a bucket” aren’t trying to gain anything for themselves, they’re just trying to prevent anyone else from succeeding. The Dems attacking her now are doing so either because they want the nomination, or they want their preferred candidate to win it. In a zero sum game, attacks are strategically valid. As shown in 2016, enough attacks and the electorate will decide “What the hell both sides are bad”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800.md?page=14)