# Elizabeth Warren 2020 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 17, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800 "2019-08-17T17:03:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/141 "2019-08-31T20:58:56Z")
[Doublechecks thread title …] So now that everyone has caught on that Warren is now the one other than Biden to beat, and she gets the critical treatment if not attacks herself, how do you think she will hold? Will she expand further beyond her current demographics? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/142 "2019-08-31T21:08:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [Doublechecks thread title …] > > So now that everyone has caught on that Warren is now the one other than Biden to beat, and she gets the critical treatment if not attacks herself, how do you think she will hold? > > Will she expand further beyond her current demographics? I suspect she’s going to keep growing, for the same reason that Obama did: the self-fulfilling prophecy of electability. I recognize that this might be wishful thinking. But my hopes have been so shriveled and shellshocked for the past few years, that I’m gonna nurture any hope that dares to venture forth. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/143 "2019-08-31T21:30:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [Doublechecks thread title …] > > So now that everyone has caught on that Warren is now the one other than Biden to beat, and she gets the critical treatment if not attacks herself, how do you think she will hold? > > Will she expand further beyond her current demographics? Depends on Sanders. He’s not as popular it appears as compared to 2015-16 because he’s not new. People know him well now, what he stands for, what he stands against and his persona. Warren is now the new media darling…“I have a plan for that”. She has eaten into his support, splitting that progressive left wing meanwhile Biden has the middle all to himself. They want to both tear into him but at some point they will have to face up to each other. I think Bernie given he talks as if he’s the architect of a leftward swing won’t bow down and tell his supporters to settle for Warren. I think his campaign will turn on her if it comes to it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/144 "2019-09-01T02:50:03Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > She has eaten into his support, splitting that progressive left wing meanwhile Biden has the middle all to himself. They want to both tear into him but at some point they will have to face up to each other. I think Bernie given he talks as if he’s the architect of a leftward swing won’t bow down and tell his supporters to settle for Warren. I think his campaign will turn on her if it comes to it. I don’t think the evidence supports this conclusion. Sanders, in 2016, threw his support behind a much more right-leaning candidate (than Warren) in order to beat Trump. I think he’s likely to do the same. I agree with Sanders on the lion’s share of issues and find him to be basically a good politician. But I’m pretty ready for him to see that Warren’s got the game that he doesn’t have, and to step aside for her. As long as he doesn’t get into a pissing match with her, I’m okay. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/145 "2019-09-01T08:00:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Just look at her numbers, and that will tell you the story. When she entered the race, she was considered a long shot, one progressive hopeful among many. She has, in my view, run the most strategically sound campaign. You could argue that Bernie has also run a pretty smart campaign, but a lot of his campaign’s energy comes from 2016. I don’t see where Bernie has picked up new voters, but it’s indisputable that Warren has. She’s clearly good at running in Democratic primaries. She did well there in Massachusetts and is doing well in Democratic presidential primary polling now. Her _general_ election performance has been atrocious, but she got away with it because the state is so blue. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/146 "2019-09-01T09:41:53Z")
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Elizabeth Warren comes across as being very angry. This has served her well in the primary, but in the general election it could strongly work against her. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/147 "2019-09-01T12:08:43Z")
Angry is exactly what she needs for the general election. The American populace as a whole _likes_ angry: That’s how Trump won. But if she wins the primary, it’ll be because Sanders drops out (or drops so low that he might as well be out), and his supporters switch to her. Which sounds plausible enough on paper. But of those polls which have asked about voters’ second choices, Sanders and Warren aren’t actually the second choices for each other’s voters: Most supporters of both Sanders and Warren actually have Biden as their second choice. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/148 "2019-09-01T14:35:01Z")
Only putting this under Warren’s thread instead of Beto’s because I guess I spoke too soon thinking the Democrats wouldn’t start taking firearms, evidently some want just that. [In March of 2019,](https://www.quora.com/Beto-ORourke-said-If-you-own-an-AR-15-keep-it-Continue-to-use-it-responsibly-and-safely-I-just-dont-think-that-we-need-to-sell-anymore-weapons-of-war-into-this-public-Do-you-agree-or-not-with-him) Beto said if you have already have a AR-15, you get to keep it, he just won’t allow anymore to come in. [Now I’m reading today,](https://theworldnews.net/gb-news/beto-o-apos-rourke-says-ak-47-and-ar-15-owners-will-apos-have-to-sell-them-to-the-government-apos-if-he-becomes-president) if he becomes president, it will be mandatory to sell and turn in all of your AR-15 and AK-47 rifles to the government. Stupid thing to do. You don’t have to be that knowledgable about rifles (I’m certainly not), to know there is nothing special about the AR-15. There are so many rifles that shoot the same catridge that are also semi-automatic and so similar. I see a slippery slope, to where this could eventually lead to all firearms probably being turned in eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/149 "2019-09-01T15:15:41Z")
Well, I think there’s definitely something special about those things in terms of being used in the unending stream of mass shootings, mostly down to their magazine capacity and the fact that their connection with military use (obviously in a castrated version) seems to have a certain psychological appeal to maladjusted losers who want to shoot a lot of people. I’m not going to argue that the choice of weapon is completely arbitrary. But I think the genie is out of the bottle; they’re also owned by huge numbers of people who aren’t killing anyone and aren’t going to. FAR too many to just say “hand 'em over.” Even banning their further production and sale while grandfathering all the current owners is probably a political nonstarter. Making them outright illegal to own is totally unachievable, and also guaranteed to energize Republicans to vote against it. I agree it’s a stupid position for Beto to take and will hurt his chances. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/150 "2019-09-01T15:31:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Angry is exactly what she needs for the general election. The American populace as a whole _likes_ angry: That’s how Trump won. Yeah. This. > [@](#): > > But if she wins the primary, it’ll be because Sanders drops out (or drops so low that he might as well be out), and his supporters switch to her. Which sounds plausible enough on paper. But of those polls which have asked about voters’ second choices, Sanders and Warren aren’t actually the second choices for each other’s voters: Most supporters of both Sanders and Warren actually have Biden as their second choice. I’ve heard that too and wonder what it’s about. I prefer Warren but if she’s out and Sanders is not I’d prefer him over Biden. I don’t hate Biden either, and if he prevails I’ll support his candidacy too. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/151 "2019-09-01T16:36:11Z")
> [@Razncain](#): > > Their passion for firearms far exceed mine, can’t say I really even have a passion for them, I’ve got less than 10. A giggle snuck from this hombre on that. > [@Moriarty](#): > > Biden is sort of a version of Trump, in that both are older white guys who will trade insults and boasts. Warren is an intellectual who will talk policy; Trump can’t compete on that level, and his insults and boasts will seem excessively juvenile by comparison. I truly think she would win in a landslide. > [@chappachula](#): > > You,re assuming that most voters are intellectuals who want to talk policy. > To win the election you have to make people feel good in their guts, not their brains. I’ll go with **chap** on this - the Wi/Mi/Penn blue collar demographic (who will determine the outcome of the 2020 election) will, without question, unfortunately rely on the stupid optics of whoever comes across as the more imposing Debate Tough Guy. Abstruse shit like “policy” will go over their heads, right? Won’t register with them. Too wonky, gubbermental. Warren will come across, then, as nothing more than some wimpy schoolmarm to them, and who wants some ‘finger-waving shrill old granny’ telling them what to do? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/152 "2019-09-04T06:45:32Z")
Exactly. > [@Chronos](#): > > Angry is exactly what she needs for the general election. The American populace as a whole _likes_ angry: That’s how Trump won. I would call this highly debatable in general. But to whatever extent it’s true, it only applies to white men. You can’t be an angry woman in presidential politics, or an angry black man for that matter. Is that an unfair double standard? Of course. But there’s a lot of unfair shit we have to factor into our strategery. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/153 "2019-09-12T18:15:29Z")
An interesting read in Politico today about Warren’s relationship with Obama and his administration: [‘Why are you pissing in our face?’: Inside Warren’ War with the Obama Team.](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/12/warren-obama-2020-228068) I’m still processing the article myself, and how this applies to the 2020 race. Any others’ thoughts would be welcome. But I do think that if she were to win the nomination, it might be important to extend an olive leaf to this powerful contingent of the Dem party by picking an running mate from out of the Obama circle. Julian Castro or [Anthony Foxx perhaps.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Foxx) Hell maybe even Tom Perez or Eric Holder. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/154 "2019-09-12T19:23:27Z")
I am foursquare with the Obama team on this. Reading that, I was reminded of how dishonest she has been about TARP over the years. She constantly refers to it as a “taxpayer bailout”, strongly implying that taxpayers were left holding the bag—when in fact they made a profit from those loans. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/155 "2019-09-12T19:50:15Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Exactly. > > I would call this highly debatable in general. But to whatever extent it’s true, it only applies to white men. You can’t be an angry woman in presidential politics, or an angry black man for that matter. Is that an unfair double standard? Of course. But there’s a lot of unfair shit we have to factor into our strategery. I have to agree with Slacker about this (I don’t necessarily agree that Warren _does_ come off as angry, but that unfair double standard certainly does exist). ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/156 "2019-09-12T19:52:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Steal them or use a Straw man seller. > > But they only need one, so a extra $20 in taxes isnt going to make a difference. > > Idea like Warrens will only hurt the serious collectors and targets shooters, like those qualifying for our Olympics teams. > > What we need is to crack down on Straw man sellers. Won’t\* somebody\* think of our Olympians??:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/157 "2019-09-12T19:54:24Z")
A couple people have posted to the effect that “most Americans aren’t paying attention yet”, but that’s really not true; polls show that most Americans are in fact paying some attention, and a large minority describe themselves as paying “a lot of” attention. Just FYI. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/158 "2019-09-13T00:05:23Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > You,re assuming that most voters are intellectuals who want to talk policy. > To win the election you have to make people feel good in their guts, not their brains. I recall when a reporter told Adlai Stevenson, “You have the support of every thinking American!” Stevenson replied, “That’s fine, but I need a majority to win!” ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/159 "2019-09-13T00:07:46Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > 1. Warren is not only going up against Biden, so it’s not yet a head to head matchup like it will be later in the primaries or in the general. Recall that the next democratic debate where Warren and Biden are on the same stage. I think that’s going to happen tonight. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800/160 "2019-09-13T00:09:39Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > You mean Donald “don’t throw me in the Biden patch” Trump? It’s real simple. Biden ran for President a couple of times and didn’t get close. So did Trump. Every election cycle is a different environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-2020/838800.md?page=9)