# Elizabeth Warren and the Presidency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 24, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838 "2013-03-24T19:07:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/181 "2013-04-15T05:27:38Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > That’s basically going after the people who can’t really change how they do their jobs because they answer to the President (this is mostly true even for non-at will regulators) instead of bringing whatever problems you have with banking regulators up with the guy who runs the show. Well, we established in the Fast and Furious threads that the President isn’t responsible for what his administration does. Maybe Warren figures it’s a waste of time to go after the President. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/182 "2013-04-15T06:01:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In what sense is Rand Paul a reformer? He’s a bog-standard hard-right conservative. That’s Old Right. At this point in time, the US government would have to be reformed top down to conform to Old Right ideology. Leftists do not own the term “reformer”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/183 "2013-04-15T06:09:20Z")
Being a reformer is nonideological. There are many liberal reformers(Ron Wyden comes to mind, as well as Claire McCaskill), and many of the Tea Partiers are reformers. Reformers want to change the process of government to make it more honest. The STOCK act was a good reform, earmark reform is worthy, that kind of thing. Reduction of corruption. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/184 "2013-04-15T06:20:45Z")
Pseudotron, ran across this unintentionally hilarious article about the Democratic strategy to take back the House in 2014: Democratic Party officials believe that Kevin Strouse is exactly the kind of candidate who can help them retake the House next year. He’s a smart, young former Army Ranger — good qualities for any aspiring politician. But what party leaders really like is that Strouse doesn’t have particularly strong views on the country’s hottest issues. Immigration? Tax policy? “Certainly I have a lot of research to do,” Strouse acknowledged in an interview Thursday as he announced his candidacy in a suburban Philadelphia House district. Strouse’s candidacy reflects an emerging Democratic strategy for taking back the House from Republicans after the tea party takeover of 2010. > **[Democrats push problem solvers in House contests](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/democrats-push-problem-solvers-in-house-contests/2013/04/06/16c02154-9bde-11e2-9a79-eb5280c81c63_story.html)** > > In suburban areas, the party is recruiting candidates who are less focused on divisive issues. You’d think a party confident in an ascending liberal majority would run unabashed liberals. Instead, they are looking for attractive candidates with no particular opinions. That doesn’t sound like a party confident in a liberal future. And it’s not as if they are just pushing a candidate like that because it’s a red district. It’s a D+1 district! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/185 "2013-04-15T12:21:49Z")
I don’t think most of us lefties are burdened by the illusion of an entire Democratic Party that’s unabashedly liberal. The party as a whole is entirely under the thumb of corporate and business interests. That said, they’re STILL better than the batshit crazy Republicans who are under the thumb of the batshit crazy religious right. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/186 "2013-04-15T12:37:53Z")
In fairness to lefties, the Democrats aren’t entirely under the thumb of business interests. It’s a pretty diverse coalition, you’ve got labor stooges, business stooges, squishes who are just trying to stay viable in red districts, and concentrated in the Northeast and some California districts, some genuine principled liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/187 "2013-04-15T14:23:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about in this sense, from his website: > > That doesn’t seem very “bog standard hard-right” to me. Why not? There are just as many conservative reasons to oppose the PATRIOT Act as there were to support it. Look at his general policy ideas, though: he’s a religious conservative who supports the typical swath of “family values” legislation, and a fiscal conservative who wants to shrink the federal budget and return power to the states. The only area where he really differs from his party is decriminalization of marijuana, and that fits just fine with the states’ rights stuff anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/188 "2013-04-15T14:52:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why not? There are just as many conservative reasons to oppose the PATRIOT Act as there were to support it. So why was opposition among conservatives so thin? The claim was not that he was still within what could theoretically be called conservative, but that he was just like all the rest of them. Which he is not, on that issue. > [@](#): > > Look at his general policy ideas, though: he’s a religious conservative who supports the typical swath of “family values” legislation, and a fiscal conservative who wants to shrink the federal budget and return power to the states. The only area where he really differs from his party is decriminalization of marijuana, and that fits just fine with the states’ rights stuff anyway. Again, the statement wasn’t that he was radically different on a whole swathe of issues, but that he was just the same as all the others. There are significant areas where he is not, even if he is generally in agreement with them on the majority of issues. He is, after all, a Republican and not a Libertarian or even an Independent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/189 "2013-04-15T15:02:33Z")
Opposition among conservatives was thin because the whole party was marching in lockstep to the 9/11 drumbeat and anyone outside the fold likely ran the risk of being shoved out of the party. It doesn’t take brass balls for Rand Paul to announce his opposition to legislation that he never had to vote for in the first place; he wasn’t even in Congress yet. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/190 "2013-04-15T15:24:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Opposition among conservatives was thin because the whole party was marching in lockstep to the 9/11 drumbeat and anyone outside the fold likely ran the risk of being shoved out of the party. It doesn’t take brass balls for Rand Paul to announce his opposition to legislation that he never had to vote for in the first place; he wasn’t even in Congress yet. He voted against the renewal of the act. How many other Republican Senators did? **RNALTB** , you are making too big a deal out this. I was responding to the specific question of one poster. I am not trying to make RP out to be some amazingly unique Republican with hundreds of new and wonderful ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/191 "2013-04-15T16:57:34Z")
Fair enough. L? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/192 "2013-04-15T16:58:35Z")
Duplicate ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/193 "2013-04-15T19:15:56Z")
Rand Paul is unique in that unlike most Republicans, his libertarianism outweighs his conservatism. Some liberals in the media even defended him, pointing out correctly that if the Democrat in the race won, that Democrat would vote for the Patriot Act, the drug war, domestic surveillance, etc. Kentucky is a conservative red state. A libertarian from Kentucky is a heck of a lot more productive if you care about civil liberties than a red state Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/194 "2013-04-15T22:18:11Z")
Well, yes, but it must be remembered that they have the full force of the vigorous libertarian movement behind them ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/195 "2013-04-16T02:26:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, yes, but it must be remembered that they have the full force of the vigorous libertarian movement behind them All 0.5% who typically vote for the Libertarian presidential candidate! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/196 "2013-04-16T02:26:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, it’s either “proto-baseball” or “random cruelty” depending on the vital status of the possum. As long as [del]we’re on[/del] the subject[del],[/del] has arisen, how does one go about determining the vital status of a possum? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/197 "2013-04-16T05:40:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > As long as [del]we’re on[/del] the subject[del],[/del] has arisen, how does one go about determining the vital status of a possum? Well, now, that’s a difficult one. There’s this game they like to play . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/198 "2013-04-16T05:44:28Z")
Of course, it helps to remember that a possum is not a hedgehog. This fact can serve to remind a possum of its vital status quite abruptly, but all too belatedly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/199 "2013-04-16T06:02:12Z")
The hedgehog knows the one thing, the possum, not even that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/200 "2013-04-16T08:15:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > All 0.5% who typically vote for the Libertarian presidential candidate! That’s like saying there’s no progressive movement because Nader only got 2% and the Greens usually do worse than the libertarians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838.md?page=11)