# Elizabeth Warren and the Presidency **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 24, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838 "2013-03-24T19:07:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/81 "2013-03-27T11:50:48Z")
The Methodist church is an offshoot of the Episcopalian church, so you sort of can be both. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/82 "2013-03-27T12:34:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Your claim, _as a fact_ :rolleyes:, that she was lying is based on nothing more than a thin, contemptible chain of insinuation, and not even an original one at that. To hold it together, you are including accusations that Harvard was lying too, and with even less basis for \*that \*statement. Read for comprehension. I stated a list of facts, then I stated what my opinion is based on those facts. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/83 "2013-03-27T12:37:53Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Later, after she gets tenure, she removes herself from the list willingly so that Harvard would be pushed to hire other minorities. She’s “made it”, so she wants to give that opportunity back. > > None of these things would contradict the information we know about her. Conservatives simply choose to believe in the one that involves a grand Indian conspiracy. I, however, will always think of Senator Warren as the highest Native American office holder. She is a great fighter against the big banks for the common man and would make a terrific president that would swing the pendulum towards the left Your interpretation assumes that she isn’t acting in her own best interests. In my experience people tend to do things that benefit themselves. It might be a happy accident that she happened to benefit from her minority status, but even if it is she should have known better than to take advantage of the system. The odds that it was simply innocent are so astonishingly small in my opinion that it’s not even worth considering. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/84 "2013-03-27T12:38:56Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It’s more than “kind of” racist; it’s totally racist. But, hey, that’s how they ran against Obama. …and there’s the race card. Got any actual proof for that racism accusation you are throwing out there? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/85 "2013-03-27T12:52:27Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > she should have known better than to take advantage of the system. Assuming she believed herself to have Native American heritage - and there’s no reason to assume otherwise - why should she have ‘known better’? She didn’t do anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/86 "2013-03-27T12:52:38Z")
How about “It’s my opinion based on facts”? You seem to like that one. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/87 "2013-03-27T12:55:24Z")
FACT: Obama is an African-American. FACT: Many Americans are biased against African-Americans. My opinion, based on the above facts: Obama suffers from many Americans being biased against him. Irrefutable proof, by your standards. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/88 "2013-03-27T12:58:16Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > FACT: Obama is an African-American. > FACT: Many Americans are biased against African-Americans. > My opinion, based on the above facts: Obama suffers from many Americans being biased against him. > > Irrefutable proof, by your standards. Do you think “proof” and “opinion” are synonyms? You must, since that’s the only way your post makes sense. I think it’s reasonable to observe facts and then form an opinion based on them. When new facts emerge you might change your opinion. Is this not reasonable? What better method is it that you prefer? By the way, I think a lot of people would agree with the hypothetical opinion about Obama that you posted. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/89 "2013-03-27T13:33:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > …and there’s the race card. > > Got any actual proof for that racism accusation you are throwing out there? You’re the one who seems to confuse “proof” with “opinion.” In the above-quoted post, you’re demanding that someone provide “proof” that someone else is racist. Absent a confession (and I doubt you would accept that), what proof could there possibly be that someone else is racist? I’m merely mocking your demand that someone prove that another person is racist. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/90 "2013-03-27T13:36:26Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I stated a list of facts, then I stated what my opinion is based on those facts. You stated a mix of facts and insinuations, cobbled together by a loudmouth local talk show host in a pathetic effort to play both the race card and the truthfulness card simultaneously. You may note that it backfired. To repeat, you ought to know better. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/91 "2013-03-27T14:08:01Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > You’re the one who seems to confuse “proof” with “opinion.” In the above-quoted post, you’re demanding that someone provide “proof” that someone else is racist. Absent a confession (and I doubt you would accept that), what proof could there possibly be that someone else is racist? I’m merely mocking your demand that someone prove that another person is racist. I’m being called a racist. You would have me accept this without pushing back and demanding proof of the claim? Simply because everyone knows racists never admit it? So I should just accept it? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/92 "2013-03-27T14:10:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You stated a mix of facts and insinuations, cobbled together by a loudmouth local talk show host in a pathetic effort to play both the race card and the truthfulness card simultaneously. You may note that it backfired. > > To repeat, you ought to know better. I stated a list of facts. None are in dispute. You really have a fixation on Howie Carr. You seem to be unable to discuss anything regarding MA politics without dwelling on him. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/93 "2013-03-27T14:14:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’m being called a racist. You would have me accept this without pushing back and demanding proof of the claim? Simply because everyone knows racists never admit it? So I should just accept it? > > Really? You’re entitled to your opinion of yourself. So are other people entitled to their opinions of you. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/94 "2013-03-27T14:19:58Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > You’re entitled to your opinion of yourself. So are other people entitled to their opinions of you. If I were going to form an opinion about someone, especially one as damning as calling them a racist, I’d have some reasoning to back it up. I guess I’m just a decent human being like that. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/95 "2013-03-27T14:23:17Z")
What would constitute “proof” in your view of what would make someone who denies it a racist? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/96 "2013-03-27T14:39:19Z")
Three posters called me a racist. ( **YogSosoth** first, then **miss elizabeth** and **sachertorte** agreeing with him to varying degrees.) Let’s see what argument they can make to back up their claim. I’m certainly not going to help them do it. I’m not even going to give them the pleasure of denying it. It’s as beneath me to deny it as it should be beneath them to make the baseless accusation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/97 "2013-03-27T14:48:11Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Three posters called me a racist. ( **YogSosoth** first, then **miss elizabeth** and **sachertorte** agreeing with him to varying degrees.) Wait. What? My post refuted the statement that “it is racism,” because that is inaccurate. Scott Brown wasn’t being outright racist in the sense that ‘non-whites are bad.’ Calling attention to Warren in a “she doesn’t look Native American” is kind of racist. It isn’t racist in the traditional sense, but it is kind of racist in that he judged her based on how she looks. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/98 "2013-03-27T14:51:22Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > She’s shrill. While we’re all up in Debaser’s grill, I thought I would add this little nugget. Shrill - Used by Republican males to indicate that the subject is not a Republican, is female, and has spoken in a public forum. Audiologists are currently studying inner ear structure and unique DNA basis of Republican males which result in this syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/99 "2013-03-27T14:55:55Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Wait. What? > My post refuted the statement that “it is racism,” because that is inaccurate. Scott Brown wasn’t being outright racist in the sense that ‘non-whites are bad.’ Calling attention to Warren in a “she doesn’t look Native American” is kind of racist. It isn’t racist in the traditional sense, but it is kind of racist in that he judged her based on how she looks. Fair enough. I did state “to varying degrees” since you said “kind of”. But the original post that started the accusations of racism was clearly directed at me. He was quoting me and directed it at “you guys” meaning me and I guess anyone else who agrees with me regarding Warren. If you were just talking about Scott Brown and not me that’s fine. But it wasn’t clear from your post. I only reported the one initial post to the mods for insults. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838/100 "2013-03-27T14:59:05Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > While we’re all up in Debaser’s grill, I thought I would add this little nugget. > > Shrill - Used by Republican males to indicate that the subject is not a Republican, is female, and has spoken in a public forum. Audiologists are currently studying inner ear structure and unique DNA basis of Republican males which result in this syndrome. So I’m a sexist too? Off the top of my head: Shrill female republican: Anne Coulter Non shrill female republican: Sarah Palin Shrill female democrat: Elizabeth Warren Non Shrill female democrat: Margery Eagan Sorry to disappoint your Republican stereotypes, but it’s possible to be shrill on both sides of the aisle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-and-the-presidency/653838.md?page=6)