# Elizabeth Warren campaign goes full blown populist **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335 "2019-11-12T17:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/21 "2019-11-14T16:25:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Wow, the Warren campaign has taken a hard ‘angry’ populist turn over the last couple days. > > 1. Got a fundraising email last night with ‘Stick it to the billionaires who are fighting against our movement’ as the opening line. > > 2. Got a text this morning, ‘Companies like Exxon shouldn’t be able to pour money into junk science and use or to lie to fed regulators.’ > > I assume she’s trying to grab any of the Bernie supporters that are still gettable. Still, I’m not sure this is a great strategy. She’ll have a fervent army of Twitter warriors but most us don’t wake up in the AM wanting to smack Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg in the face. > > It looks like the primary strategy is for her to knock out Bernie and then for Biden or Buttigieg to emerge as her competition. The drawback from this strategy is that I’m not sure Bernie will drop out when it becomes hopeless. Bernie went scorched earth in 2016 even when his campaign was all but mathematically eliminated. Whereas, I do think Biden or Buttigieg would drop out once it becomes clear that they’re not going to be the nominee. i just think that you haven’t been paying attention, none of this is a departure from what she’s been saying since elected to the senate. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/22 "2019-11-16T21:58:13Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Her strategy is not appealing to me. Yes, I think Bezos and Zuckerberg and other very wealthy folks should be paying more in taxes. A lot more. Because for whatever reason, they benefited the most from the society we all built and all pay into. They need to give back and I think there are institutional problems that occur when individuals are allowed to accumulate the kind of wealth associated with nations, like wealth corrupting the political system. > > But I don’t hate or even particularly dislike these people. In fact, many of them have qualities that I admire. I know many of these ultra-wealthy people personally and they are people. Some are assholes and some are genuine and kind. And I don’t want to “stick it to them”. I just want them to pay their fair share, which is way more than they pay now. > > I also hate the term “economic inequality”. I don’t think it adequately describes the issues and I don’t think it’s inherently wrong that some of us have more than others. I prefer the term economic injustice when addressing the systemic problems Warren isn’t hating at billionaires, she’s responding to billionaires who are stating to the media that her policies are dangerous. Does some of those responses run the risk of being misrepresented. Sure, but 99% of her message is “I just want them to pay their fair share, which is way more than they pay now.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/23 "2019-11-16T22:04:11Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Warren isn’t hating at billionaires, she’s responding to billionaires who are stating to the media that her policies are dangerous. Does some of those responses run the risk of being misrepresented. Sure, but 99% of her message is “I just want them to pay their fair share, which is way more than they pay now.” Not doubting you but do you have specific billionaires in mind? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/24 "2019-11-29T14:13:59Z")
Even as her poll numbers drop, it looks like the Warren campaign is still focused on the anti-billionaires strategy. Her latest Instagram ad is for a sticker saying, ‘I’m tired of freeloading billionaires.’ Maybe it’ll work, I still don’t think most voters wake up every morning seething with hatred towards billionaires. Her campaign might be looking too much at her most avid twitter supporters. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/25 "2019-12-03T03:33:18Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Just saw on the official Warren Twitter account that they’re selling Billionaire Tears coffee mugs. > > [https://twitter.com/teamwarren/status/1194783777597333505?s=21](https://twitter.com/teamwarren/status/1194783777597333505?s=21) > > Well, it’s a campaign strategy. Now some billionaire HAS to get a “progressive tears” mug ready for when Biden wins the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/26 "2019-12-03T03:36:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Now some billionaire HAS to get a “progressive tears” mug ready for when Biden wins the nomination. I’ll make my own “centrist tears” when Sanders gets the nomination and personally mail you one if you so want. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/27 "2019-12-03T03:45:55Z")
If Sanders wins the nomination I’ll send you MY tears. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/28 "2019-12-03T07:59:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Although it seems weird to me to use “populist” to refer to criticism of an elite as tiny as the approximately 750 individuals who now control more wealth than the bottom 50% of all Americans, that seems to be a thing now, so OK? That’s the definition of populism though - the wider People against the smaller Elites. Who the People is varies, as do the Elites ; but whenever the discourse is framed that way it’s populism. It’s not an inherently bad thing mind you - only the Elites say that :). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/29 "2019-12-03T09:15:56Z")
The problem for populism is that it basically requires Warren to act as if people making six figures are hard pressed and should receive more government support. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/30 "2019-12-03T12:08:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The problem for populism is that it basically requires Warren to act as if people making six figures are hard pressed and should receive more government support. Yeah, over this weekend one of my friends, along with the Twitter left, were twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to attack Pete’s college plan. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/31 "2019-12-03T13:13:37Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Yeah, over this weekend one of my friends, along with the Twitter left, were twisting themselves into a pretzel trying to attack Pete’s college plan. Well, it **is** pretty stupid, when you come right down to it. I mean, if you’re going to provide free college to 80% of the population, and give partial assistance to another 10%, why not just go ahead and make it universal? But the real issue isn’t that his own proposal doesn’t go that last mile, it’s the bullshit attack on Warren and Sanders over free college for the kids of billionaires. It’s a farcical issue, but it lets him play Younger Joe Lieberman for a new generation, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/32 "2019-12-03T13:36:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The problem for populism is that it basically requires Warren to act as if people making six figures are hard pressed and should receive more government support. As I said, if you’re going to pay for college for 80% of the population, and subsidize it for another 10%, why not make it universal? It’s not like it would cost much more - the rich and near-rich are mostly going to send their kids to elite private universities - and not even Harvard or Princeton; remember those parents who were paying a bunch of money to scam the system and get their kids into the _University of Southern California?_ (Nothing wrong with USC; my parents went there, but I don’t think of it in the same breath as Stanford or Swarthmore.) Parents who want their kids to go to a good private college and can afford to send them there aren’t going to take advantage of free college at a public university just to save some money. Not to mention, if it’s universal: 1. Nobody needs to jump through a ton of paperwork just to prove they’re not too affluent to take advantage of the program. And quite seriously, the paperwork itself is a barrier for many families at the lower end of the scale, just like many families eligible for various forms of public support **already** fail to take advantage if they’ve got to prove they’re eligible. **Universality helps poor families take advantage of the program.** 2. Universal programs have much closer to universal support. Once you start means-testing a program, it’s slammed as welfare, and lots of people are reflexively against welfare. 3. And once you means-test a program, it’s easy for it to be turned into something like welfare. The next round of budget cuts might well shift the line of ineligibility downward - _those people making $70K can afford college for their kids!_ - and then it gets shifted again, at which point it really **is** aid to poor families, and then it’s on the chopping block. The point is, rich people would be paying for this program anyway - through Warren’s wealth tax, or whatever tax Sanders has for rich people. That’s how you do it: make them pay for public college for _everyone’s_ kids, and then they can be part of ‘everyone’ and take advantage of it if they want to send their kids to a public college. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/33 "2019-12-03T17:31:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well, it **is** pretty stupid, when you come right down to it. Exactly. It’s hypocritical and divisive and, yes, extremely populist. “We’re going to help you but don’t worry, we’re not going to help These people, they’re elites, fuck 'em, amirite ?” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/34 "2019-12-03T17:33:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But the real issue isn’t that his own proposal doesn’t go that last mile, it’s the bullshit attack on Warren and Sanders over free college for the kids of billionaires. And that’s another bingo. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/35 "2019-12-03T22:15:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well, it **is** pretty stupid, when you come right down to it. > > I mean, if you’re going to provide free college to 80% of the population, and give partial assistance to another 10%, why not just go ahead and make it universal? > > But the real issue isn’t that his own proposal doesn’t go that last mile, it’s the bullshit attack on Warren and Sanders over free college for the kids of billionaires. It’s a farcical issue, but it lets him play Younger Joe Lieberman for a new generation, I guess. Here’s the thing though: you’re not providing it to 80% of the population. You’re providing it to the 30-40% of the population that goes to college and is capable of finishing college. Most of whom are either pretty well off or are going to be. Now if a bill with a GENUINE funding source that hits only the upper class is part of a free college bill, I can get behind that. I’m not vehemently against free college, so much as I want to see an actual bill get scored by the CBO, because campaign promises involving revenue numbers and promises to spare working families are usually bullshit. And I’m not even against taxing working families, if it’s providing a benefit working familiies will use. But most kids from middle class and lower middle class families won’t go to college, so it would be a terrible idea to have them pay for it, either directly, or indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335/36 "2019-12-04T16:07:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Exactly. It’s hypocritical and divisive and, yes, extremely populist. “We’re going to help you but don’t worry, we’re not going to help These people, they’re elites, fuck 'em, amirite ?” Well, it _looks_ populist at first glance, doesn’t it? Then you add in all the hoops that families with no resources will have to jump through, just to prove they’re not affluent, and it’s not populist at all. Open it to everyone, so there are no hoops. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warren-campaign-goes-full-blown-populist/843335.md?page=1)