# Elizabeth Warren's role
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [April 5, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227 "2016-04-05T02:18:06Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/21 "2016-04-09T02:44:25Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#):
>
> What is that? Some sort of GOP tropism? Warren gets mentioned and that silly meme gets brought up?
>
> [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/politics/politicians/warren.asp)
>
> It seems to me her (probably mythological) family history was not used to gain advantage (for her) and really was quite innocent. Two of her employers used it to prove their diversity. It happens.
>
> Tempest in a teapot, except in the right wing bubble.
She’s the one who claimed NA ancestry. The poster you quoted didn’t say a thing about affirmative action. Overcompensate much?
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### Author:  [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2016, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/22 "2016-04-09T11:46:10Z")
Concerning Lie-a-watha. A few points.
No doubt she used the claim of NA heritage to advance herself.
No doubt **she is not** on the rolls of any recognized NA tribe.
Which means that somewhere out there perhaps is a qualified NA attorney who is on the NA rolls that would like to be one the faculty at Harvard but is not.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/23 "2016-04-09T17:40:57Z")
> [@davida03801](#):
>
> Concerning Lie-a-watha. A few points.
>
> No doubt she used the claim of NA heritage to advance herself.
> No doubt **she is not** on the rolls of any recognized NA tribe.
> Which means that somewhere out there perhaps is a qualified NA attorney who is on the NA rolls that would like to be one the faculty at Harvard but is not.
I have my doubts that this particular hypothetical situation of unfairness is among your more significant concerns.
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### Author:  [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/24 "2016-04-09T18:47:20Z")
Indecent, egregious and bad behavior towards others should be called out on both sides of the spectrum not just one. My little contribution to that belief.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/25 "2016-04-09T23:59:45Z")
> [@davida03801](#):
>
> Concerning Lie-a-watha. A few points.
>
> No doubt she used the claim of NA heritage to advance herself.
OK, now you’ve done it. I think he claiming to be NA is laugh-worthy, but there is no evidence she actually used that to advance her career. So yeah, there is doubt.
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### Author:  [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/26 "2016-04-10T11:13:34Z")
We shall never know for sure, as the wagons are circled under the right of privacy. Which by the way I respect and that is her right.
But the lack of sunshine on those records leaves unanswered questions. Therefore you can have your opinion, I can have mine.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/27 "2016-04-10T16:42:19Z")
> [@davida03801](#):
>
> Indecent, egregious and bad behavior towards others should be called out on both sides of the spectrum not just one. My little contribution to that belief.
Is proportionality an element in your contributive process?
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [April 10, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/28 "2016-04-10T17:17:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I think he claiming to be NA is laugh-worthy
All she ever claimed is that family lore had it that they had some Cherokee ancestry. What would be far less credible, from a white Oklahoman, is a claim they did _not_.
I still have never heard from anyone who has called Warren a liar just what the lie was. Even Scott Brown couldn’t say more than “Clearly she’s not”.
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### Author:  [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/29 "2016-04-11T14:49:50Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> Is proportionality an element in your contributive process?
Oh please, lets be honest here. Can we?
Lets say the roles reversed and we were talking about a conservative, in lieu of a progressive, in the same circumstance. There would be no end of complaints from the progressive side, and in the media, of this person taking advantage of the circumstances, blah, blah, blah.
We all know its true and anyone saying otherwise is disingenuous.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/30 "2016-04-11T15:27:32Z")
If the situation was reversed, wouldn’t you agree it’s making a mountain out of a mole hill? I mean seriously, she was a well respected academic and prominate legal scholar.It’s rather hard to believe she got any real advantage out of saying she was 1/26th Natve American nor is their reason to assume she was lying rather believed the family legend. It smacks of desperately reaching for something to discredit her.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/31 "2016-04-11T17:39:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> If the situation was reversed, wouldn’t you agree it’s making a mountain out of a mole hill? I mean seriously, she was a well respected academic and prominate legal scholar.It’s rather hard to believe she got any real advantage out of saying she was 1/26th Natve American nor is their reason to assume she was lying rather believed the family legend. It smacks of desperately reaching for something to discredit her.
Warren graduated from the 82nd ranked law school in America. Every other member of the Harvard Law Faculty, more than 100 people, graduated from a top ten ranked law school. Only one professor in the entire Ivy league law schools has a degree from a lower ranked law school. She definitely received a benefit and knew that if she checked the box she would receive the benefit.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/32 "2016-04-11T17:43:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> If the situation was reversed, wouldn’t you agree it’s making a mountain out of a mole hill? I mean seriously, she was a well respected academic and prominate legal scholar.It’s rather hard to believe she got any real advantage out of saying she was 1/26th Natve American nor is their reason to assume she was lying rather believed the family legend. It smacks of desperately reaching for something to discredit her.
My family has a similar legend. However, it’s unverifiable so far as I’ve been able to find. The difference is that because I have no verifiable evidence, I don’t believe the legend.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/33 "2016-04-11T19:34:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Oh, I doubt endorsing Clinton would very much hurt Warren’s fundraising prospects next time she seeks re-election.
One in four Sanders supporters claim they will not vote for Hillary. Warren raised 11.5 million in out of state money last election. Among progressives elites there was a call to “[punish](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/218134-left-blasts-hillary-clinton-in-secret-emails)” Hillary. Warren has alot to lose and very little to gain from endorsing Hillary until right before the convention.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/34 "2016-04-11T19:39:01Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> Warren graduated from the 82nd ranked law school in America. Every other member of the Harvard Law Faculty, more than 100 people, graduated from a top ten ranked law school. Only one professor in the entire Ivy league law schools has a degree from a lower ranked law school. She definitely received a benefit and knew that if she checked the box she would receive the benefit.
Meh. Explain to me why this one diversity hire came from a non top ten then. They were apparently able to find “people of colour” before Mrs 82nd ranked school graduate came along. Harvard was just desperately waiting for an Indian to apply for the job? Obviously if Harvard was just ticking a diversity box they could still have chosen people from much higher ranked schools. But they didn’t.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/35 "2016-04-11T20:51:52Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> One in four Sanders supporters claim they will not vote for Hillary. Warren raised 11.5 million in out of state money last election. Among progressives elites there was a call to “[punish](http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/218134-left-blasts-hillary-clinton-in-secret-emails)” Hillary. Warren has alot to lose and very little to gain from endorsing Hillary until right before the convention.
It depends on what you think she most wants to gain.
Personally I do not see most interested in gaining more funds (or has any fear of losing it). I see the gains she cares about as actually making progress on the agenda that matters to her.
**MfM** shared [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19189992&postcount=8) in another thread.
> [@](#):
>
> [After dinner] Larry [Summers] leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice. I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don’t criticize other insiders.
>
> - Elizabeth Warren (2014) in A Fighting Chance
I think she’s tried to strike a balance between the two worlds and is more in the Clinton pragmatist/insider camp than the quixotic/idealist/outsider one.
She knows what she wants to see: the “right” people in the “right” positions - and she is smart enough to know that those right positions that matter are not necessarily the showy ones but the ones that often get little attention but have huge impact on how policies actually get implemented. She is extremely aware that often the wrong people have been in those positions, people in and out of the Wall Street revolving door.
Mind you I don’t think it will be a hard sell to Clinton, but she will maximize the power of her ask as best she can by timing it as best she can, such that she remains perceived as an honest broker by all sides. IMHO.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/36 "2016-04-11T21:58:49Z")
IMO that’d certainly be the optimal play for her. I’d hope she does it that way. I make no prediction on what she will do but that’s due to my own ignorance of the details.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/37 "2016-04-11T23:54:33Z")
> [@davida03801](#):
>
> Oh please, lets be honest here. Can we?
>
> Lets say the roles reversed and we were talking about a conservative, in lieu of a progressive, in the same circumstance. There would be no end of complaints from the progressive side, and in the media, of this person taking advantage of the circumstances, blah, blah, blah.
>
> We all know its true and anyone saying otherwise is disingenuous.
Exsmples should be easy to find, then.
But if you are indeed calling for directness and honesty, I’m honestly unclear how Warren’s ancestry and her claims thereabout are significant. Does she have any actual shortcomings you like to bring to our attention?
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### Author:  [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/38 "2016-04-12T01:13:48Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> Warren graduated from the 82nd ranked law school in America. Every other member of the Harvard Law Faculty, more than 100 people, graduated from a top ten ranked law school. Only one professor in the entire Ivy league law schools has a degree from a lower ranked law school.
Well, Warren might also be one of the few graduates of an 82nd ranked law school to do as well as she has. [This](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren) is from the Wikipedia article on her:
> [@](#):
>
> At Harvard, Warren became one of the most highly cited law professors in the United States. Although she had published in many fields, her expertise was in bankruptcy. In the field of bankruptcy and commercial law, only Douglas Baird of Chicago, Alan Schwartz of Yale, and Bob Scott of Columbia have citation rates comparable to that of Warren.
And, it wasn’t like she was just hired by Harvard out of law school. She had first earlier become a full professor and obtained in endowed chair at U. Penn…and her appointment at UPenn happened after she had already worked at U Michigan and U Texas, where her work “established her as a rising star in the field of bankruptcy law.”
If you have evidence that she has not been as successful as her fellow professors with a better pedigree, then by all means, share it.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/39 "2016-04-12T18:54:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> Meh. Explain to me why this one diversity hire came from a non top ten then. They were apparently able to find “people of colour” before Mrs 82nd ranked school graduate came along. Harvard was just desperately waiting for an Indian to apply for the job? Obviously if Harvard was just ticking a diversity box they could still have chosen people from much higher ranked schools. But they didn’t.
They were not going to hire any random person, they were going to keep going down the qualified list until they found one who checked the right box. In her case she checked two boxes, the woman box and the minority box. She jumped over the more qualified people in front of her by checking that box.
---
### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elizabeth-warrens-role/751227/40 "2016-04-12T18:57:17Z")
> [@jshore](#):
>
> Well, Warren might also be one of the few graduates of an 82nd ranked law school to do as well as she has. [This](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren) is from the Wikipedia article on her:
>
> And, it wasn’t like she was just hired by Harvard out of law school. She had first earlier become a full professor and obtained in endowed chair at U. Penn…and her appointment at UPenn happened after she had already worked at U Michigan and U Texas, where her work “established her as a rising star in the field of bankruptcy law.”
>
> If you have evidence that she has not been as successful as her fellow professors with a better pedigree, then by all means, share it.
She was well cited because she had a [history](http://elizabethwarrenwiki.org/academic-research-controversy/)of using academic fraud to come to the politically correct conclusions in her research. Someone without the requisite boxes checked would have probably been more thoroughly vetted and not hired.
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