# Ellen Cherry, please reconsider this warning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532 "2013-05-28T10:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/1 "2013-05-28T10:25:07Z")
In [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16326842&postcount=54) post, I was warned for insulting another poster. I did no such thing, and I ask that you reconsider this warning. There is an all too common attitude amongst defenders of racism (or at least racially insensitive language) that because they may have been called a name (usually “white cunt”) by an aboriginal, the use of offensive language is justified. **TempestLegion** opened himself up to this line when he stated > [@](#): > > Australia is loosing the plot and not just with this issue. I have had far worse racial slurs aimed at me and been spat on by someone from a different race There was no insult directed at the other poster. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/2 "2013-05-28T11:21:05Z")
May I enquire what, exactly, “loosing the plot” means? I’m unfamiliar with the phrase. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/3 "2013-05-28T11:31:48Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > There was no insult directed at the other poster. I agree with this. The warning was not called for. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/4 "2013-05-28T11:49:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > May I enquire what, exactly, “loosing the plot” means? I’m unfamiliar with the phrase. > > Thank you! The phrase is “to lose the plot,” and it literally means to become unable to follow the sequence of events in a story. Metaphorically, it means that someone has lost the mental capacity to understand what is going on around him or her. Or, more generally, it can mean to become mentally unstable. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/5 "2013-05-28T12:03:03Z")
Oh and if you’re the one telling the story, then losing the plot means your storyline no longer holds together. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/6 "2013-05-28T12:09:58Z")
Not to defend the warning, but when someone says that they’ve been called “far worse racial slurs”, they’re not typically challenging you to guess what they are. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/7 "2013-05-28T12:24:40Z")
To me, it read like a way of calling him an insulting name by pretending it wasn’t _you_ doing the calling, but this hypothetical other person. Maybe if you hadn’t started with the snarky “Sure you have.” you might have gotten away with it, OP. Better luck next time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/8 "2013-05-28T12:28:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > To me, it read like a way of calling him an insulting name by pretending it wasn’t _you_ doing the calling, but this hypothetical other person. Maybe if you hadn’t started with the snarky “Sure you have.” you might have gotten away with it, OP. Better luck next time. Without his explanation, I’d agree. With it, I don’t think that’s what he was going for at all. An honest misunderstanding, and I think the warning should be downgraded to a note that Krav should be more careful in his phrasing next time. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/9 "2013-05-28T12:44:53Z")
John Bradley Hurst talks about what anthropologist Gillian Cowlishaw defined as aboriginal “oppositional culture” in his book of essays “Sense and Nonsense in Australian History”: > [@](#): > > These are the values and attitudes formed by the Aboriginies to protect themselves from white oppression and scorn. For many Aboriginies in these places, to be Aboriginal means to be regularly drunk, to scorn those who work, to treat school as a joke, and to welcome a term in jail. We want Aboriginies to be sober, well educated and employed, but they are not necessarily seeking this for themselves. in far west country towns, dedicated teachers who want to help Aboriginies can still be called ‘white cunts’ and have their cars scratched ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/10 "2013-05-28T12:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > To me, it read like a way of calling him an insulting name by pretending it wasn’t you doing the calling, but this hypothetical other person. Maybe if you hadn’t started with the snarky “Sure you have.” That’s kind of the point. I was expressing disbelief that he had been called a worse racial slur than ‘ape’', which he didn’t really consider to be a slur in any event. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/11 "2013-05-28T14:06:35Z")
I suspect this is related to North American sensitivity regarding the word “cunt.” I think there should be some hesitation to act when the context is Antipodean, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/12 "2013-05-28T14:47:11Z")
I’m willing to admit that I am not aware of the subtleties of Australian race relations. However, saying to someone you bet they were called a “white cunt” sounds like you’re calling them one yourself. If the phrase has particular, understood meaning in Australia (as cited above) then I can see how it would seem obvious to someone from there, and not to me. And yes “cunt” is quite a loaded term in the US, which is where I’m from and where this board is based. So I’m going to see it as an insult if the word is chosen specifically for use. And I concede that a person from Australia may not view it with the same drama that I would. Why don’t we just agree that there has been some cross-cultural misunderstanding here? I’ll downgrade my warning to a simple note, and suggest that in a discussion of insults, we should all be careful not to insult others in the process. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/13 "2013-05-28T15:24:03Z")
Good move. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/14 "2013-05-28T15:37:19Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Why don’t we just agree that there has been some cross-cultural misunderstanding here? I’ll downgrade my warning to a simple note, and suggest that in a discussion of insults, we should all be careful not to insult others in the process. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/15 "2013-05-28T16:06:02Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > And yes “cunt” is quite a loaded term in the US, which is where I’m from and where this board is based. So I’m going to see it as an insult if the word is chosen specifically for use. And I concede that a person from Australia may not view it with the same drama that I would. Well, sure, that’s a reasonable initial perspective, but after several years if discussion on this board, we should be beyond that by now … Indeed, some degree of ignorance might be said to have been fought. Might one consider as a new initial perspective that “cunt” when used by non-Americans on this board or in non-American contexts should not be treated as a trigger word of some kind? ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/16 "2013-05-28T16:29:00Z")
Perhaps in a perfect world, **Acsenray** , but it’s asking a lot to make the moderators keep up with who’s from where. Posters bear responsibility for what they say, and it is disingenuous to deny certain words are loaded, no matter where you’re from. I always try to take each situation as it arises and use my best judgment in the context of the thread and the parties involved. I’ll continue that policy. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/17 "2013-05-28T16:33:56Z")
I should think that simply reading the thread before posting a moderator’s message would be sufficient in the majority of cases. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/18 "2013-05-28T16:51:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, sure, that’s a reasonable initial perspective, but after several years if discussion on this board, we should be beyond that by now … Indeed, some degree of ignorance might be said to have been fought. Might one consider as a new initial perspective that “cunt” when used by non-Americans on this board or in non-American contexts should not be treated as a trigger word of some kind? This cuts both ways. **Krav Manga** has been posting here for more than four years, and should be well aware of how the word might be taken on a US board. In addition, although it’s not as severe an insult in Australia as it is in the US, it’s still an insult. If it had been directed at another poster, a warning might still be justified. Posters are responsible for the content of their posts. You should take care with how you phrase things to make sure you won’t be misinterpreted. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/19 "2013-05-28T17:41:42Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I’m willing to admit that I am not aware of the subtleties of Australian race relations. However, saying to someone you bet they were called a “white cunt” sounds like you’re calling them one yourself. If the phrase has particular, understood meaning in Australia (as cited above) then I can see how it would seem obvious to someone from there, and not to me. > > And yes “cunt” is quite a loaded term in the US, which is where I’m from and where this board is based. So I’m going to see it as an insult if the word is chosen specifically for use. And I concede that a person from Australia may not view it with the same drama that I would. > > Why don’t we just agree that there has been some cross-cultural misunderstanding here? I’ll downgrade my warning to a simple note, and suggest that in a discussion of insults, we should all be careful not to insult others in the process. New moderators should be directed to this post as an example of what they should be striving toward. Very well handled. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532/20 "2013-05-28T17:49:11Z")
I just want to say this has been handled well all around. **Krav Manga** , for a polite request for reconsideration and explanation for how the post was misinterpreted, rather than a demand for action and an accusation of thuggery and malicious bias. **Ellen Cherry** , for listening to the explanation and reconsidering based upon the context of the post and the intent. I can see how Ellen might have read that post as an intent to squeeze in an insult, regardless of the word “cunt” being used as opposed to some other insult. I don’t think it was intended that way, but it is a bit sketchy. A better phrasing of the post might have avoided the confusion better. And kudos to the rest of the board members for not turning this into a slapfight or bitchfest. Quick, let’s close this thread before it goes off the rails. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-cherry-please-reconsider-this-warning/659532.md?page=2)