# Ellis as NSA General Counsel **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995 "2021-01-20T18:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/1 "2021-01-20T18:05:06Z")
What will the Biden administration do about it? Apparently, he has Civil Service protections and can’t be removed but can be transferred. Send him to be in legal counsel for mops and brooms? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/2 "2021-01-20T18:09:22Z")
Who is Ellis? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/3 "2021-01-20T18:21:09Z")
> **[Trump loyalist starts job as NSA’s general counsel](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/19/nsa-trump-michael-ellis-460467)** > > President-elect Joe Biden’s team may have difficulty removing Michael Ellis from the civil service post. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/4 "2021-01-20T18:22:29Z")
Trump loyalist who isn’t qualified for the position. At least, as compared to others who would be far more suitable. > **[How Did a Trump Loyalist Come to Be Named NSA General Counsel—And What Should...](https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-did-trump-loyalist-come-be-named-nsa-general-counsel-and-what-should-biden-do-about-it)** > > Trump political appointee Michael Ellis has been named to an important career position. Congress should investigate the suspicious circumstances of the selection, and the Biden transition should think carefully about what to do on Jan. 20. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/5 "2021-01-20T22:17:40Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Apparently, he has Civil Service protections and can’t be removed but can be transferred. Civil service employees can most certainly be fired. They cannot be fired at the drop of a hat like in the private sector employees, but federal civil service employees are let go every day. The “protections” they enjoy essentially boil down to requiring a fair process for their removal that adequately documents and justifies the reasons for their termination. So if cause exists for his termination – such as it’s found that the hiring process did not adhere to civil service protocols – he can be removed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/6 "2021-01-20T22:59:02Z")
Reassign him to a nothing job and start the process of removing him. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/7 "2021-01-20T23:12:51Z")
Create a new position that is superior to his. Then don’t assign him anything meaningful. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/8 "2021-01-20T23:32:30Z")
Trump created that Executive Order, intended to take effect on January 19, that strips Civil Service job protections from a great swath of the federal workforce. Can President Biden leave that EO in place for a while, long enough to purge the Executive branch of any people hired or appointed in the last four years, that Biden feels ought to be purged? Including this guy Ellis? And including all the Trump political appointees that “burrowed in” by getting themselves moved to protected Civil Service positions? ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/9 "2021-01-21T00:39:17Z")
I suppose he could, but he won’t. The whole argument against the EO is that it’s an illegal and improper abridgement of federal civil service protections. I assume Biden agrees with this position, although I’m not aware if he’s taken an official stand on it. Using the EO to fire Ellis would undermine the argument that it’s illegal and improper, and would give the next Republican in the White House a precedent to reinstate the EO and fire whomever they want to. And he doesn’t need to go this route. As I said previously, Ellis and any other “burrowed in” employees can be removed through existing procedures, it just takes a little longer. And in the meantime they can be assigned duties that will keep them away from any substantive or important work. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/10 "2021-01-21T03:20:50Z")
Apparently it was decided that perhaps Mr. Ellis could was due for some vacation very early in his appointment. > **[Last-minute Trump appointee at NSA put on administrative leave due to...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/politics/michael-ellis-administrative-leave/index.html)** > > National Security Agency General Counsel Michael Ellis, who was installed by former President Donald Trump during his final days in office, was put on administrative leave Wednesday because his appointment is now the subject of a Department of... ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/11 "2021-01-21T03:57:43Z")
And in another sign that Biden is not fucking around, [he fired the general counsel at the National Labor Relations Board](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/trump-labor-board-460978) after he refused Biden’s request to resign. This is an appointed – not civil service – position, but his term was not due to expire until November of this year. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2021, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-as-nsa-general-counsel/930995/12 "2021-01-21T11:55:14Z")
The nice part about Trump is there was nothing subtle about anything he did. Like a kid in the chocolate, there’s messy handprints everywhere. Real easy for Mom & Dad to chase down the messes and, given enough effort and bandwidth, clean up after them.