# Ellis Dee -- suspension lifted **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 3, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234 "2006-01-03T16:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/41 "2006-01-04T02:26:27Z")
Another vote for “This suspension stinks.” Ellis is one of the friendliest board members around. He got rubbed the wrong way and pitted Tuba with a little too much vigor, yes, but he quickly apologized, and this behavior is hardly characteristic of him. Serious question: would he have been suspended if he hadn’t used the C-word? Addendum: the timing _really_ stinks. Most of his posts are about football, and he gets shit-canned for a month just as the playoffs are starting. Could you guys mabe put the suspension on hold until the second week of February? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/42 "2006-01-04T02:34:05Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Addendum: the timing _really_ stinks. Most of his posts are about football, and he gets shit-canned for a month just as the playoffs are starting. Could you guys mabe put the suspension on hold until the second week of February? Agreed. I’d feel this suspension was BS no matter what the timing, but imposing it now? Man, that’s just cruel for those of us who value his opinions and football acumen. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/43 "2006-01-04T02:48:53Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > Another vote for “This suspension stinks.” > > Ellis is one of the friendliest board members around. He got rubbed the wrong way and pitted Tuba with a little too much vigor, yes, but he quickly apologized, and this behavior is hardly characteristic of him. Important point of fact. **Ellis Dee** _never pitted **Tubadiva** _. As far as I can tell she was never involved in the threads in question and appears to the be the only person offended. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/44 "2006-01-04T02:49:44Z")
On the off-hand chance that you are not following the other thread, **TVeblen** please consider [this note](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6959090&postcount=36) as well. Thank you ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/45 "2006-01-04T02:51:48Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Important point of fact. **Ellis Dee** _never pitted **Tubadiva** _. As far as I can tell she was never involved in the threads in question and appears to the be the only person offended. Oops, brain fart. I meant TVeblen, the other Admin whose name starts with T. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/46 "2006-01-04T03:22:18Z")
> [@Nic2004](#): > > On the off-hand chance that you are not following the other thread, **TVeblen** please consider [this note](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6959090&postcount=36) as well. > Thank you I’m wondering where the apology fits into the whole scheme of things as well. **Enginerd** , I think the difference is insulting the mod as a poster for posting something vs. insulting the mod as a mod for an official decision. For example, I could call (just an example. Please don’t hurt me with your mod powers) **Frank** a lying sack of whale semen for something he posted without his mod-hat. But I couldn’t call him a disease riddled whore for giving me an official warning. Does that make sense ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/47 "2006-01-04T03:26:05Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > . . . Staffers are actually less equal than members in a lot of ways; they’re members too, but restricted to what they can say and what they can do on their own behalf. They are not allowed to get down and dirty with the rest of you. . . . All due respect, Ms. Diva, but this is not true. At least, it’s not enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/48 "2006-01-04T03:38:14Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > **Enginerd** , I think the difference is insulting the mod as a poster for posting something vs. insulting the mod as a mod for an official decision. > > For example, I could call (just an example. Please don’t hurt me with your mod powers) **Frank** a lying sack of whale semen for something he posted without his mod-hat. But I couldn’t call him a disease riddled whore for giving me an official warning. Does that make sense Now that I think on it, that doesn’t respond to enginerds post at all. :smack: The difference is insulting as a poster and insulting as a moderator during an official decision. For example, a mod (acting as a poster in the pit) can insult someone if they want. However, they can’t give you a warning and an insult. Of course, Tubadivas post kinda shoots that theory down, but thems the breaks. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/49 "2006-01-04T07:36:28Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > We have suspended Ellis Dee for one month, beginning today. > > The offense is in this thread: > > [TVeblen: Cryptic?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351988) > \>[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351988](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=351988) > > Quoting from the registration agreement: > > “Refusal to cooperate with board moderators or to abide by these rules is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges.” > > It’s acceptable to disagree with how the board is operated or to question individual moderator/administrator decisions; it is never acceptable behavior to be deliberately abusive, which the above clearly falls into. > > TubaDiva This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. First of all Ellis Dee had already apologized and admitted fault in that same thread. Apparently Ellis was suspended – for a month, no less – simply for calling the mod a “cunt.” I would agree completely, both with the claim that this is abusive and that it warranted suspension, if not for the fact that the use of such language is widely permitted in the Pit. So much so that in fact the use of profanity in a Pit rant almost seems _expected_ – indeed, I suspect that many posters who would never use such language in real life or in other message board postings do so in the pit because the impression is “that’s the way to post in the Pit.” Personally, I wouldn’t mind a bit if use of the word “cunt” were banned completely. And if you want to impose different standards for how people can talk to moderators, that’s fine too. It’s not unreasonable to say that they deserve a little extra respect for all the work they put in. But I can’t see how Ellis was expected to _know_ that such a double-standard exists. If you permit the use of extreme profanity to the point where it seems like it’s the accepted posting style for the Pit, then it isn’t reasonable to expect Ellis Dee to know that using that word directed at a mod is a suspension-worthy offense. The bottom line: given that the use of the word “cunt” in the Pit is widespread and is consistently ignored by the moderators, it wasn’t reasonable to expect Ellis Dee to know it wasn’t permitted. (The fact that so many are surprised by the ruling is further evidence that the board population as a whole was unaware that this is a suspendable offense.) And to suspend someone for a _month_ for something they might _reasonably_ have thought was allowed is simply unfair. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/50 "2006-01-04T07:38:45Z")
Sorry if those comments should have gone in the pit – I’m a little unsure of the protocol here. I.e., are we allowed to criticise administrative decisions in threads outside the Pit if that decision is the _subject_ of the thread? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/51 "2006-01-04T07:54:16Z")
Never mind, I see Ellis has been reinstated. The admins’ willingness to reconsider their decisions does them credit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/52 "2006-01-04T08:28:21Z")
We’ve had some correspondence with Ellis and some discussion. All of us – including Ellis – are in understanding on this situation, certainly much more so than before. That being said, we felt it proper to hold the suspension to time served, as it were, and move on, so he has been reinstated. It is my hope this also serves to make people more considerate of one another everywhere on this board. A little courtesy, a touch of patience, they can go a long way. TubaDiva The Golden Rule: Not just a theory. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/53 "2006-01-04T10:21:27Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > This is demonstrably not true. Look at some of **tomndebb’s** postings in the pit. > > In which he calls [**Kyle Raynor**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6543737&postcount=29) stupid: > [A](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6326672&postcount=111) [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6338663&postcount=470) [full](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6341062&postcount=513) [for](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6344238&postcount=607) **[Scott](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6345800&postcount=654) [Plaid](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6345855&postcount=660)**. > A gratuitous pot-shot at [**Lekatt**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6063113&postcount=188). > Another one for [Scott](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5904024&postcount=83). > You yourself aren’t [above](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6863075&postcount=56) a snarky reply, either. > I’m not picking on you or Tom for any of that - all those posts are perfectly understandable, and certainly none of them rises to the level of calling someone a “cunt.” But they’re still insults, and you can’t have it both ways. If you want to dish it out, even occasionally, you’ve got to be able to take it too. > > You also always mention that your positions are unpaid, and you guys deserve some slack for your mistakes. That works both ways - **Ellis** immediately acknowledged and apologized for his overreaction in that thread after hearing from **tomndebb** and **TVeblen**. Where’s his slack? Nailed it. Lib Works Both Ways: Not just a biconditional implication. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/54 "2006-01-04T18:33:59Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > We’ve had some correspondence with Ellis and some discussion. > > All of us – including Ellis – are in understanding on this situation, certainly much more so than before. > > That being said, we felt it proper to hold the suspension to time served, as it were, and move on, so he has been reinstated. > > It is my hope this also serves to make people more considerate of one another everywhere on this board. A little courtesy, a touch of patience, they can go a long way. > > TubaDiva > The Golden Rule: Not just a theory. Can you elaborate a bit more on the reasoning behind ending the suspension, is what Ellis did still considered against the rules, are mods not allowed to be called names in the pit, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/55 "2006-01-04T18:48:40Z")
Ellis Dee understands why we moved to suspend him – understands in totality what he did and why it was wrong. He has proven to our complete satisfaction that he not only gets it but genuinely, deeply, sincerely regrets his actions. This won’t ever happen again – or anything even similarly like it. (BTW, this is true of most people who for one reason or another screw up on the board; once they really see the full measure of their actions and understand how it was wrong, the bad behavior never repeats.) That’s all we want; we want people to do right here. If they don’t get it until they’re shown some correction, okay, we attempt to guide into better behavior. For most people – most emphatically including Ellis Dee – that’s all that’s required. Which means this incident is over. And yes, the prohibition against abusing staff remains. You can disagree with what we do, you don’t have to love us, you don’t have to like us. But you do have to be civil at the least, the very least. TubaDiva ---
**Author:** ![Serket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Serket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serket)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/56 "2006-01-04T18:50:10Z")
[hijack] My cousin named her son Ellis Dee (after our great-grandfather and grandfather). [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/57 "2006-01-04T19:02:36Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > And yes, the prohibition against abusing staff remains. You can disagree with what we do, you don’t have to love us, you don’t have to like us. But you do have to be civil at the least, the very least. > > TubaDiva So in plain language that means no cursing the staff in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/58 "2006-01-04T19:37:30Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > And yes, the prohibition against abusing staff remains. You can disagree with what we do, you don’t have to love us, you don’t have to like us. But you do have to be civil at the least, the very least. In most situations where there is a paying clientele, it goes the other way as well. Staff must be courteous at the least, the very least. Perhaps the mods could refrain from joining in the pile-ons or snarking at members. Besides, that would seem part and parcel with the “held to a higher standard” business. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/59 "2006-01-04T19:43:36Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > And yes, the prohibition against abusing staff remains. You can disagree with what we do, you don’t have to love us, you don’t have to like us. But you do have to be civil at the least, the very least. > > TubaDiva Can I confirm that this is a two-way street and that the mods will be under instructions to treat us with the same civility, at all times, even in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234/60 "2006-01-04T21:22:43Z")
What, you expect us to go on a mad campaign of kicking asses? That’s not going to happen. We strive to treat the members of this community with civility and respect – sometimes in the face of some adverse reactions. Patience is one of the greater virtues of moderators and adminstrators here at the Dope, 'cause they need so much of it. That being said, there are circumstances it’s very easy to be exasperated; if it’s exceptionally trying/amazingly stupid, it’s not out of line for a moderator to say so. We are not automatons and you should not expect us to be so. Even Jesus snapped when provoked, you know. This does not mean that we’re not going to tell you when you’ve done something wrong – we will as always try to steer into better behavior – those of you who get all shameful/angry over it are going to have to get over yourselves. Correction is not abuse. Fix the problem, straighten up, go forth, and sin no more. That’s all it means, it’s not a judgment of you as a human being or a value statement of anything about you except for what you did that needs correcting. If you see something that you consider abuse in any direction, report it! Notify another moderator, tell an adminstrator, let me know. [TubaDiva@aol.com](mailto:TubaDiva@aol.com). Finally, I personally promise not to call any of you a cunt. Even if you deserve it. 🙂 TubaDiva [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-lifted/338234.md?page=4)