Ellis is one of the friendliest board members around. He got rubbed the wrong way and pitted Tuba with a little too much vigor, yes, but he quickly apologized, and this behavior is hardly characteristic of him.
Serious question: would he have been suspended if he hadn’t used the C-word?
Addendum: the timing really stinks. Most of his posts are about football, and he gets shit-canned for a month just as the playoffs are starting. Could you guys mabe put the suspension on hold until the second week of February?
Agreed. I’d feel this suspension was BS no matter what the timing, but imposing it now? Man, that’s just cruel for those of us who value his opinions and football acumen.
Important point of fact. Ellis Deenever pitted Tubadiva. As far as I can tell she was never involved in the threads in question and appears to the be the only person offended.
I’m wondering where the apology fits into the whole scheme of things as well.
Enginerd, I think the difference is insulting the mod as a poster for posting something vs. insulting the mod as a mod for an official decision.
For example, I could call (just an example. Please don’t hurt me with your mod powers) Frank a lying sack of whale semen for something he posted without his mod-hat. But I couldn’t call him a disease riddled whore for giving me an official warning. Does that make sense
Now that I think on it, that doesn’t respond to enginerds post at all. :smack: The difference is insulting as a poster and insulting as a moderator during an official decision. For example, a mod (acting as a poster in the pit) can insult someone if they want. However, they can’t give you a warning and an insult.
Of course, Tubadivas post kinda shoots that theory down, but thems the breaks.
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. First of all Ellis Dee had already apologized and admitted fault in that same thread. Apparently Ellis was suspended – for a month, no less – simply for calling the mod a “cunt.” I would agree completely, both with the claim that this is abusive and that it warranted suspension, if not for the fact that the use of such language is widely permitted in the Pit. So much so that in fact the use of profanity in a Pit rant almost seems expected – indeed, I suspect that many posters who would never use such language in real life or in other message board postings do so in the pit because the impression is “that’s the way to post in the Pit.”
Personally, I wouldn’t mind a bit if use of the word “cunt” were banned completely. And if you want to impose different standards for how people can talk to moderators, that’s fine too. It’s not unreasonable to say that they deserve a little extra respect for all the work they put in. But I can’t see how Ellis was expected to know that such a double-standard exists. If you permit the use of extreme profanity to the point where it seems like it’s the accepted posting style for the Pit, then it isn’t reasonable to expect Ellis Dee to know that using that word directed at a mod is a suspension-worthy offense.
The bottom line: given that the use of the word “cunt” in the Pit is widespread and is consistently ignored by the moderators, it wasn’t reasonable to expect Ellis Dee to know it wasn’t permitted. (The fact that so many are surprised by the ruling is further evidence that the board population as a whole was unaware that this is a suspendable offense.) And to suspend someone for a month for something they might reasonably have thought was allowed is simply unfair.
Sorry if those comments should have gone in the pit – I’m a little unsure of the protocol here. I.e., are we allowed to criticise administrative decisions in threads outside the Pit if that decision is the subject of the thread?
We’ve had some correspondence with Ellis and some discussion.
All of us – including Ellis – are in understanding on this situation, certainly much more so than before.
That being said, we felt it proper to hold the suspension to time served, as it were, and move on, so he has been reinstated.
It is my hope this also serves to make people more considerate of one another everywhere on this board. A little courtesy, a touch of patience, they can go a long way.
Can you elaborate a bit more on the reasoning behind ending the suspension, is what Ellis did still considered against the rules, are mods not allowed to be called names in the pit, etc.?
Ellis Dee understands why we moved to suspend him – understands in totality what he did and why it was wrong.
He has proven to our complete satisfaction that he not only gets it but genuinely, deeply, sincerely regrets his actions. This won’t ever happen again – or anything even similarly like it.
(BTW, this is true of most people who for one reason or another screw up on the board; once they really see the full measure of their actions and understand how it was wrong, the bad behavior never repeats.)
That’s all we want; we want people to do right here. If they don’t get it until they’re shown some correction, okay, we attempt to guide into better behavior. For most people – most emphatically including Ellis Dee – that’s all that’s required.
Which means this incident is over.
And yes, the prohibition against abusing staff remains. You can disagree with what we do, you don’t have to love us, you don’t have to like us. But you do have to be civil at the least, the very least.
In most situations where there is a paying clientele, it goes the other way as well. Staff must be courteous at the least, the very least. Perhaps the mods could refrain from joining in the pile-ons or snarking at members. Besides, that would seem part and parcel with the “held to a higher standard” business.
Can I confirm that this is a two-way street and that the mods will be under instructions to treat us with the same civility, at all times, even in the Pit?
What, you expect us to go on a mad campaign of kicking asses? That’s not going to happen.
We strive to treat the members of this community with civility and respect – sometimes in the face of some adverse reactions. Patience is one of the greater virtues of moderators and adminstrators here at the Dope, 'cause they need so much of it.
That being said, there are circumstances it’s very easy to be exasperated; if it’s exceptionally trying/amazingly stupid, it’s not out of line for a moderator to say so. We are not automatons and you should not expect us to be so. Even Jesus snapped when provoked, you know.
This does not mean that we’re not going to tell you when you’ve done something wrong – we will as always try to steer into better behavior – those of you who get all shameful/angry over it are going to have to get over yourselves. Correction is not abuse. Fix the problem, straighten up, go forth, and sin no more. That’s all it means, it’s not a judgment of you as a human being or a value statement of anything about you except for what you did that needs correcting.
If you see something that you consider abuse in any direction, report it! Notify another moderator, tell an adminstrator, let me know. TubaDiva@aol.com.
Finally, I personally promise not to call any of you a cunt. Even if you deserve it.
