# Ellis Dee suspension - Over reaction **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 3, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252 "2006-01-03T18:18:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/21 "2006-01-03T20:25:21Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Sorry, TVeblen, just being snarky in your closing didn’t warrant my response. And sorry, to you as well, tomndebb. Clearly his rage burned with the white hot intensity of a firefly’s butt. I think Ellis is usually one of the more calm, reational personalities here. Course, I also feel the same about TVeblen and Tomndebb so the entire sequence has me a bit befuddled. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/22 "2006-01-03T21:14:26Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > The suspension is bullshit. […] Where’s his slack? > > It’s the worst fucking month to suspend him, too. He’s always got insightful commentary on the NFL, and now we’ll all miss out on it the entire postseason because someone got their panties in a bunch about being insulted. Amen! I may not always reply or agree to those posts, but he really does provide some of us some valuable reading when discussing NFL topics. After reading some of the latest comments in the ATMB thread by Admin, I must go on the record here. You guys were wrong. You over reacted. Want a new rule? Fine. Make one. But don’t make up one after the fact to cover your mistakes. paid for by the Committee to Unsuspend the Fucker in Question ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/23 "2006-01-03T21:47:13Z")
I agree that this suspension is ridiculous. If **Ellis Dee** had been unrepentant and/or continuted insulting the Mods, or even if he had only appologized after being threatened with suspension or banishment, I would completely understand. As it is, his very next post after the OP was a (to all appearances) heartfelt apology. I honestly don’t understand why he’s being suspended _after_ cooling down and appologizing. I’d also like to see Mods address the common thread the runs across so many complaints about their actions: inconsistency. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/24 "2006-01-04T00:43:26Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > If you want to make a _new_ rule wherein no one is allowed to insult mods using swear-words, by all means do so. But don’t make up the rule on the spot and suspend someone for transgressing the unknown (and unknowable) extra super secret new rule. Haven’t you read the rules lately? 1. Don’t be a jerk 2. Don’t break any new rules before we think them up. Seems pretty clear to me. Ellis committed a thought crime und ve haf vays uf dealink wif heem. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/25 "2006-01-04T00:54:07Z")
I’m usually on the mods sides in these sorts of things, but this ruling is just spectacularly stupid. We can’t insult mods? Since when? In the ATMB thread, **Tuba** claimed that they used to do it “all the time.” I’m not one of the AOL vets, so I can only assume she’s talking about policies that are at least six years old, and have never been enforced in the interim. There has been a long standing policy of banning people who appear to have signed up for the express purpose of picking fights with the administration, but that’s because they’re a species of troll, and that certainly doesn’t describe **Ellis Dee** ’s posting history. Even more curious was her assertion that mods don’t insult users. At this point, I have to wonder if she moderates a second board in her spare time, and has forgotten which one she’s logged into. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/26 "2006-01-04T00:59:38Z")
If you think that the Mods/Admins are going to admit they made a mistake then I have news for you…not gonna happen. Has a mod admitted to a mistake before? Yes, rarely. Has it made a difference? No, not at all. I’d be interested to see, being that we’re so close to re-registration time, how many people DON’T re-subscribe. Hell, I was offline for 17 months and when I got back on, after admittedly talking to a mod/admin, my status was as if I had paid. I don’t intend to re-register for a couple of reasons: One, I honestly cannot afford it, even at $15 bux a year and Two: Even if I did, why would I pay money to be treated in a crappy way by the people that I’d be paying? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/27 "2006-01-04T01:03:55Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > Even if I did, why would I pay money to be treated in a crappy way by the people that I’d be paying? Don’t make this into yet another bondage thread! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/28 "2006-01-04T01:12:22Z")
I generally feel like our mods and admins do a really good job, so I don’t like to complain, but this does feel… odd. Had Ellis Dee not apologized specifically to TVeblen, I’d understand – but he did apologize. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/29 "2006-01-04T01:20:33Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > I generally feel like our mods and admins do a really good job, so I don’t like to complain, but this does feel… odd. Had Ellis Dee not apologized specifically to TVeblen, I’d understand – but he did apologize. Why should he have to apologize? Members aren’t required to apologize to each other after pittings, even if they are in the wrong (not saying Ellis is). ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/30 "2006-01-04T01:27:10Z")
I think the point is that he didn’t have to apologize, but he did so without prompting. That’s what makes this suspension so much more of a poor decision on the part of the moderators/admins. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/31 "2006-01-04T01:39:53Z")
\*\*CapnPitt \*\*has it, mostly. I don’t know whether he needed to apologize or not, but seeing as he did, the suspension seems to be more than was warranted. From what \*\*TubaDiva \*\*offers in the ATMB thread, it seems that there’s a feeling that mods and admins should not be subjected to abuse in the course of their duties. This seems reasonable, but is new (at least to me). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/32 "2006-01-04T01:46:15Z")
This pisses me off. I posted to the ATMB thread, and here I want to add an additional facet to the argument. These days we’re paying real live money to participate on this board. While that by no means gives us carte blanche to be abusive it certainly puts a hell of a lot higher burden on the Mods before revoking a posters privileges. **TVeblen** made a snarky reply in the process of doing his moderation. Personally I think Mods are better served by using the time honored “Mod Hat” and doing their moderation without taking shots, being wise, or generally offering any editorializing while doing their job. But, if this is the way it’s going to be that’s fine. As a matter of fact, in **TVeblen** ’s response he suggested that **Ellis Dee** take a real swing at a pitting if he’s going to do it. He very clearly took that advice literally. Following his OP, 2 Mods plus **Coldy** came into the thread and addressed the pitting and clarified themselves. **Ellis Dee** took the responses in stride and did back down from the direct attack on a Mod which it seems no one was overly bent out of shape about. Then, totally out of the blue as far as anyone can tell, **TubaDiva** swoops in and suspends him based on no involvement from her. The entire basis of the action seems to be her reaction to the use of the word “cunt”. Interesting exercise of powers considering no one who said insult was fired at has expressed any serious offense at that remark. Frankly it comes across as a holier-than-thou attitude at best and a Napoleonic abuse of authority at worse. As another poster pointed out, Mods have frequently used strong invectives against posters which I’ve never heard any complaint about. Posters have used invective against other posters and Mods before without a response unless it became a pattern of behavior. The sequence of events looks like this: 1. **Ellis Dee** reacted and a perceived insult in GD and started a Pit thread is a less than perfect manner. 2. **Brian Ekers** popped in and needled **Ellis** no no reason, certainly exacerbating his mood. 3. **TVeblen** added a criticism to the Pititng in a snarky manner, but not aggressively, and suggested he do it with the proper enthusiasm. 4. **Ellis Dee** took that advice literally, opened a thread calling out the original poster who he pitted, the Mods who closed that thread and told him to do it right, using a closing which called people fuckers and cunts. 5. **TVeblen** and **tomanddeb** popped into the new thread and elaborated on their original points, and told him he should probably tone it down when pitting Mods. 6. **Ellis Dee** calmly rescinded his comment and apologised for the invective and moved on to the original discussion. 7. **TubaDiva** come in out of nowhere and suspends him for 30-days for the following [reason](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=352292): “Refusal to cooperate with board moderators or to abide by these rules is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges”. OK, now unless I missed a part of the conflict nowhere did **Ellis Dee** fail to cooperate with Moderators. He actually responded with an apology immediately after getting a somewhat light tap on the back of his hand for attacking a Mod (none of which directly address his use of language). As a matter of fact, he did the _exact opposite_ of what he was suspended for. It’s clear to me that the real issue was with his use of the word “cunt” in **TubaDiva** ’s estimation. I have a real issue with the fact she created another phantom violation to punish him under as a response to her visceral reaction to that word. So, unless there’s extraneous information here. A pattern of behavior, previous warnings, recommendations from any of the Mods actually involved, or some other mitigating factors we deserve a explanation and **Ellis Dee** deserves a reinstatement. **TubaDiva** , to my mind, by misrepresenting the facts of the situation in her actions has taken this from a overreaction to something much more unpleasant. Since the SDMB has switched from a free offering to a pay-for-use service these types discipline are owed a real and truthful explanation to it’s customers. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/33 "2006-01-04T01:47:37Z")
I’ve been on the mods side in the **Evil Captor** thread and the **Czarcasm** pitting. But this suspension was _completely fucking stupid_. If you feel the need to punish someone for calling you a cunt, in a forum that explicitly exists for both flaming and criticizing the board administration, you should resign your position because you’re obviously far too sensitive to appropriately deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/34 "2006-01-04T01:49:27Z")
I’m not a big fan of this decision either. I understand the reason behind it, but an apology was made and this suspension comes a couple of days after the incident. I’d really like to see an explanation of the distance between the offense and the punishment (I’m betting holidays/getting everyone together for discussion) and whether or not the apology factored in. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/35 "2006-01-04T01:50:49Z")
Oh, and I seem to recall that it’s not unheard of for moderators to be “abusive” in the sense of calling posters names, is it? I assume that we’re _never_ going to see that kind of behavior again, right? Because if we did, and it was allowed, then the administration would kind of look like a bunch of hypocritical pussies. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/36 "2006-01-04T02:14:03Z")
I have mixed feelings on this one. On first consideration, even in the circles I run in the “C” word is a bit over the top and, on the street, you can expect to fend off a physical attack if you throw it out seriously. I don’t think anyone, especially a Mod/Admin. should have to put up with it. And yes, I say especially because they are like bar bouncers, stepping into fights not their own and taking knocks that they don’t always have coming. There should be a limit, and expectation of showing a certain common decency. On second consideration, I think the rant was very quickly realized and most graciously apologized for to the offended parties. It was excessive yes, but corrected. If it had been directed at me I like to think I could have accepted it as graciously as it was offered. I would have to stand with the others that say let the warning be taken and the offender be given posting rights with time served. It is up to you **TVeblen**. I understand your position and ask for the punishment to be lifted. It is the noble thing to do. Thanks for your consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/37 "2006-01-04T02:16:22Z")
For whatever it’s worth: > [@](#): > > [Originally posted by TVeblen on 7/5/2005:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6333096&postcount=117) > > We aren’t about to create a list of forbidden words. Look, different people are offended by different things but we aren’t going to play mommy here. Context and intent matter. Terms like “nigger”, “raghead”, “spic”, “kike”, etc. are plainly and simply intended as suckerpunches to the gut, nothing more. > > In the past, various posters have agitated to categorize “fundie” (for fundamentalist), “dems” and “demmies” (for Democrats) and “pubbies” and “repugs” (for Republicans) as hate speech because they don’t like 'em. I’m cynically suprised no one has agitated to ban any use of the word “fat” yet. IIRC, “cunt” and “bitch” have been suggested as well. Some of the overwrought discussions pro and con have been amusing in a distinctly surreal way, though. The etymology of victimhood, anyone? > > Odds are most people would find something to be offended about in the Pit, if so inclined to look for it. We try to keep the most egregious, vicious insults under some control but we can’t–and won’t–sanitize the Pit to Disney PC blandness on demand. > > Delicate sensibilities have their places, but the Pit ain’t one of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/38 "2006-01-04T02:23:33Z")
So now if someone pits a mod, they have to be nice about it? What the fucking fuck? ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/39 "2006-01-04T02:28:39Z")
It’s odd that this thread has been going for a good chunk of hours now without a mod response. I think Ellis was rude and he overreacted. From what I can tell, if he didn’t use the word “cunt” everything would be ok. I think this suspension was bogus & should be reversed right away. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252/40 "2006-01-04T02:32:34Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > It’s the worst fucking month to suspend him, too. He’s always got insightful commentary on the NFL, and now we’ll all miss out on it the entire postseason. . . That was my first thought as well. The NFL is, by far, his favorite topic of discussion around here. Suspending him during the playoffs is like sending a child to his room just as the family is leaving for Disneyland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellis-dee-suspension-over-reaction/338252.md?page=3)