# Elon Musk Using his Wealth to Threaten Politicians **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** elon-musk\ **Created:** [December 20, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918 "2024-12-20T14:10:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/101 "2025-01-15T23:37:22Z")
How much actual spendable revenue does that translate into? A lot yeah, but not $400 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/102 "2025-01-16T03:59:45Z")
Right. And that’s why he had to borrow money to buy Twitter despite it being a fraction of his supposed “worth” at the time. With these rich lists, it’s worth remembering 1. The real richest people in the world are likely among those who are not obliged to declare their assets, and therefore don’t show up on lists like these. 2. There are different flavors of billionaire, and often the lowest tier show up highest in these rich lists. Musk is basically in the middle; Tesla, SpaceX and Twitter make products that people pay money for (obviously Twitter to a lesser degree). Nonetheless a lot of their share value right now is speculation far beyond their current revenue. If Musk tried to sell a significant portion of the stock the value would likely tank. ChatGPT reckons he could liquidate down to ~$150 billion fairly quickly, more of course if he could take several years (Yes CGPT is not perfect, but it’s going to be a guesstimate whoever gives it). ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/103 "2025-01-17T11:49:31Z")
SpaceX: Starship experienced a rapid unscheduled disassembly during its ascent burn. Hmm, something like that will happen to the USA, ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/104 "2025-01-17T17:24:53Z")
For billionaires, what’s a typical percentage of wealth held as liquid i.e., readily spendable? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/105 "2025-01-17T17:39:47Z")
It varies a lot, so I think that getting a “typical” number would be misleading. There are billionaires who have nothing but shares, so buy their fancy houses and supercars all with bank loans. I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a private jet today. And there have been recent examples of hotshot tech founders who went overnight from billionaire, to delinquent holding worthless shares and owing the bank millions. Meanwhile people like bill gates I gather has held assets / a diversified portfolio equal to his net worth for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/106 "2025-01-17T17:42:03Z")
Wouldn’t the agreement be to have the stock be the collateral for the loan? Or are the banks wiser than that? ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/107 "2025-01-17T17:43:25Z")
Virtually all billionaires today employ “Buy, Borrow, Die” as a strategy, so they have whatever % of their worth their private banker is comfortable loaning them. What that is probably depends on the assets- $30 billion all in something volatile like Bitcoin will have a smaller LTV allowance than a broadly diversified portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/108 "2025-01-17T17:43:43Z")
That is the agreement, but the bottom can fall out of the share price eg if it’s found out that your main product is a dud. Anyway, I need to stop here as I’m no expert on this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/109 "2025-01-17T17:44:33Z")
> **[How Wealthy Households Use a “Buy, Borrow, Die” Strategy to Avoid Taxes on...](https://www.dcfpi.org/all/how-wealthy-households-use-a-buy-borrow-die-strategy-to-avoid-taxes-on-their-growing-fortunes/)** > > Capital gains are the profits generated from wealth such as stocks and real estate. Wealthy households can use the three-step “buy, borrow, die” strategy to get massive capital gains tax advantages. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/110 "2025-01-17T17:49:52Z")
We talked about this a fair bit last month: > [@Make the rich pay their fair share!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/1011019): > > [[image] ](https://i.imgur.com/GEqngyY.jpg) From the Department of “Be careful what you ask for”. Politicians like to scream, “Make the rich pay their fair share!” After reading this, the rich will want to but the rest of us will not like it. An interesting article in today’s WSJ, on page A12. ■ “The top 1% of income-tax filers provided 40.4% of the revenue in 2022, according to recently released IRS data. ■ “The top 10% of filers carried 72% of the tax burden.” Read those number… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/111 "2025-01-17T18:07:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > That is the agreement, but the bottom can fall out of the share price eg if it’s found out that your main product is a dud. Ah, I see now: the loan agreement almost certainly says “X dollars worth of stock at the time the loan is due”, not “X shares of stock”. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/112 "2025-01-17T18:11:12Z")
Not exactly. Because they never actually pay the loan back, just roll it into new loans. $100 million is due in two years. When that comes due, you borrow $205 million. $105 million to pay off the first loan, and another $100 million to play with for the next two years. As long as you have enough wealth to generate more than the interest you’re rolling over each period, you’re fine. Even if you don’t, as long as the delta between what you’re borrowing and what you have is large enough. And that’s why it only works for the truly wealthy. You might have $1 million saved, but assuming you need (say) $100,000 per year, you’re probably going to run out of borrowing capacity. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2025, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918/113 "2025-02-10T12:02:15Z")
Just thought I’d give this a bump: [https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5133777-elon-musk-threatens-republican-senators/](https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5133777-elon-musk-threatens-republican-senators/) You know, regardless of what side of the aisle you’re on, something really does need to be done about billionaires being able to just openly buy politicians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elon-musk-using-his-wealth-to-threaten-politicians/1011918.md?page=5)