# Elves Toting Rayguns **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308 "2004-04-27T17:37:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/1 "2004-04-27T17:37:14Z")
When I first read Lord of the Rings back in middle school, I was blown away. It instantly became my favorite novel. However, even as a twelve-year-old a certain fact stuck in my brain: Middle-Earth was at about a 12th-century AD level of technology, and had been for several thousand years. These people had water mills, steel forges and sailing ships, but somehow movable type and steam engines remained beyond their reach. Yeah, yeah, I know I’m not supposed to think about that, but I couldn’t help imagining a future Middle-Earth of the 20th century, where Minas Tirith has gleaming _mithril_-and-glass skyscrapers, Bag End has central a/c and the dwarves do their mining with diesel backhoes. And of course that just took me further, to imagine a genre-crossing world where elves join men in starships when they strike out to colonize the galaxy. Or, back in the present day, a rumpled fairy PI in a double-breasted suit and fedora, investigating a murder at a neon-nightmare fleabag hotel. Or hobbits fighting vampires. I don’t consider myself terribly well-read in science fiction and I actively avoid fantasy; has this sort of genre-blending been done before? It seems impossible to think that it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/2 "2004-04-27T17:45:40Z")
Oh, sure, lots of them. RPGs, comic books, novels, games… I suppose you want to focus on novels, though. Terry Brooks’s Magic Kingdom for Sale series has several sections that take place in the ‘mundane’ world with magical folks crossing into it. That’s the first one off of the top of my head… I’ll think of others. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/3 "2004-04-27T18:21:50Z")
Glen Cook’s\* Garret PI \* series is the best. [Sweet Silver Blues](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451150619/qid=1083089965/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-5767416-8624845?v=glance&s=books) is first & best. [Bitter Gold Hearts](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451153715/ref=pd_sim_books_1/002-5767416-8624845?v=glance&s=books) is next, more “typical”, but very good. The series includes the mention of metal in the title. 7 or 8 total. Very good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/4 "2004-04-27T18:50:10Z")
Or, if you want to delve into the sordid world of role-playing, there’s always [Shadowrun.](http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/5 "2004-04-27T19:03:42Z")
Those poor, downtridden Orcs! SOB! ☹ Always called “evil”, “cruel”, “barbaric”! They’re just _soldiers!_ They’re merely [Grunts!](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451454537/qid=1083092554/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-5767416-8624845?v=glance&s=books) By Mary Gentle. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/6 "2004-04-27T19:07:09Z")
“Elves with Ray Guns”. Sounds like the prize turkey **Santa Claus Conquers the Martians** , starring a nine-year old Piz Zadora! ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/7 "2004-04-27T20:37:14Z")
**"Elves Toting Rayguns"**??? Ah, they’re 1920’s style death rays. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/8 "2004-04-27T22:55:14Z")
“Dwarves with guns? [Where](http://www.geocities.com/i_am_the_cheese/STEAM26.html)?” ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/9 "2004-04-28T00:04:42Z")
The whole _Artemis Fowl_ series features modern, high-tech elves with computers, anti-personnel tactical nukes and yes, ray guns. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/10 "2004-04-28T01:28:35Z")
Seems to me elves + ray guns = Vulcans. Of course, you could always muse on T-Rexes flying F-16s. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/11 "2004-04-28T02:28:02Z")
I have often wondered about Klingons. How did they get to warp engines? It is hard to imagine a Klingon Thomas Edison, or a Klingon biplane. For that matter, where are the Klingon sergeants? In the words of George Carlin, “There has to be intermediate authority.” Is there a Klingon Richard Simmons? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/12 "2004-04-28T02:29:59Z")
On the other hand, maybe Richard does have a warrior inside him: [http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/25/simmons.cite.ap/](http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/03/25/simmons.cite.ap/) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/13 "2004-04-28T04:31:11Z")
You do bring up an interesting point re Tolkien’s overwhelming conceit in LOTR that mankind would stand around stagnating, more or less in place technologically, at a quasi-medieval level for thousands of years. I wonder if Tolkien was a bit of a luddite? ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/14 "2004-04-28T04:56:31Z")
> [@astro](#): > > You do bring up an interesting point re Tolkien’s overwhelming conceit in LOTR that mankind would stand around stagnating, more or less in place technologically, at a quasi-medieval level for thousands of years. > > I wonder if Tolkien was a bit of a luddite? I always had to wonder what they did when they weren’t fighting in middle-earth. Not much is the only answer that Tolkien seems to give. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/15 "2004-04-28T05:20:23Z")
The Elves developed an economic policy popularly known as RayGunomics. It had something to do with killing Dwarves… ---
**Author:** ![robgruver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@robgruver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robgruver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/16 "2004-04-28T05:23:37Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Of course, you could always muse on T-Rexes flying F-16s. You could try [_Cadillacs and Dinosaurs_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101056/). It was also a comic, RPG, and novels. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/17 "2004-04-28T05:44:45Z")
Tolkien actually _was_ a bit of a Luddite. In most of his works you’ll find a thread of wistful nostalgia for the days of the small farmer and nature in wilderness. His view of “progress” was rather dim…you’ll notice that an awful lot of the technological aspects of LotR was attributed to Sauron, Saruman or the orcs, and most of that is war machinery. Remember what Saruman did to the Shire, changing it from the bucolic picture of the English countryside that it was at the beginning into an industrialized region, complete with polluting factories and mills and strip-mining. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/18 "2004-04-28T12:29:27Z")
> [@robgruver](#): > > You could try [_Cadillacs and Dinosaurs_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101056/). It was also a comic, RPG, and novels. And a video game. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/19 "2004-04-28T13:49:36Z")
In Emma Bull’s excellent novel _Finder_ there’s a female elf mechanic riding a motorcycle. All sorts of other mod cons are also available, though no ray guns as far as I can recall. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308/20 "2004-04-28T14:44:03Z")
“Mod cons?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elves-toting-rayguns/242308.md?page=2)