# ElvisL1ves; Liar, or stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569 "2008-08-11T03:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/21 "2008-08-12T23:25:12Z")
I’ve never even heard this UL. What am I supposed to feel when I hear it? Am I supposed to be mad at Canada because bad people lived there? And since it’s been debunked (didn’t they live in Florida or something? I can’t remember), and they lived _here_ what am I supposed to feel? Someone please tell me how to feel! ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2008, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/22 "2008-08-12T23:32:15Z")
Outraged! You’re supposed to feel outraged. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/23 "2008-08-13T02:04:29Z")
Patriotic, too. Don’t forget patriotic. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/24 "2008-08-15T17:37:56Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Depends on how fondly you remember surgical gloves. [/QUOTE] But the fingers stick out like a rooster’s comb. What’s not to love? And he blew it up with his nose. That’s the bit I hadn’t expected. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/25 "2008-08-16T15:44:56Z")
[A quick reminder](http://www.canadafreepress.com/audio/al-qaeda-montreal.htm) for our Northern friends who continue to massage their feelings of moral superiority vs. those warmongering gunlovers from south of the 49th, blithely dismissing any inconvenient facts to the contrary: > [@](#): > > Assem Hammoud, ringleader of the alleged terrorist plot to bomb tunnels in New York, may have done the free world an unintended favour. Hammoud, albeit unwittingly drew cleansing sunlight on a rarely reported fact of life: Montreal, Quebec, Canada is a hub of activity for al Qaida and other Islamist groups–and has been so since the early 1990s. > > Mentioned only in passing in a Canadian Press (CP) report on terror suspect Assem Hammoud, CP stated that Montreal is “a known hub of al Qaida activity dating back to the 1990s”. (Terror plot suspect attended university in Montréal: official, Jim Bronskill and Bill Graveland, CP 08/07/06). > > “Montreal is the leading centre for Islamist and Jihadists groups in North America, many inspired by or with ties to al Qaida,” says Beryl Wajsman. “In total, with dozens of cells, Montreal has the largest number of such groups in any city in North America, not on a per capita basis but in gross numbers.” > > “Radical Muslim operatives go to ground in Montreal. They rest and recruit in Montreal and get their recreation here,” says Wajsman, a Montreal resident. Plenty more supporting info, just a Google away, too, but that’s a start - from your own side of the border, too. About time you hosers accepted a bit more responsibility for your role in the world, and quit pretending everyone simply loves you for your own smug, self-righteous selves. Any of you from the rest of Canada want to tell us aboot the Millenium Plot, for that matter? We caught that guy crossing from across your border just in time. Now fuck off, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/26 "2008-08-16T18:09:19Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] …aboot … [/QUOTE] Jesus! I could care less if we aid and abet terrorists who kill puppies, but if another person implies that I, as a Canadian, say, “Aboot” or, “Eh”, I am going hunt them down like the, well, like the dogs they are! fffFFFFUUCKK! ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/27 "2008-08-16T18:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] Spoken like one who has reached the annual-prostate-exam age. . . . [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Gorsnak] Outraged! You’re supposed to feel outraged. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Patriotic, too. Don’t forget patriotic. [/QUOTE] Can’t say I’ve ever felt outraged, but I’m sure as hell not gonna sing ‘God Bless America’ while the good Doc has his finger up my bum. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/28 "2008-08-16T18:51:37Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] [A quick reminder](http://www.canadafreepress.com/audio/al-qaeda-montreal.htm) for our Northern friends who continue to massage their feelings of moral superiority vs. those warmongering gunlovers from south of the 49th, blithely dismissing any inconvenient facts to the contrary… [/QUOTE] All irrelevant. Here is your exact quote: > [@](#): > > Considering that the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal, why would they want to attack it? None of your cites refer to this claim. They can’t, of course, since none of the 9/11 terrorists were “based” in Montreal. Either you’re a liar, or you’re just too dumb to understand your own cites. Do you have the courage to admit you were just ignorant? Or are you a coward, too? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/29 "2008-08-16T19:28:57Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Now fuck off, eh? [/QUOTE] The issue in question is your unsupported assertions, which continue to be unsupported. Cite or retract, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/30 "2008-08-16T20:35:55Z")
Had any of the 9/11 hijackers ever _been_ to Montreal? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/31 "2008-08-16T21:01:04Z")
[QUOTE=Attack from the 3rd dimension] Cite or retract, eh? [/QUOTE] Already done. See above. :rolleyes: > [@RickJay](#): > > All irrelevant. _That’s_ what passes for a refutation to you? 😃 I would try to find simpler words than “Fuck off” if it would help break through the wankfest of self-excuse you’re all enjoying so much, but frankly I doubt it’s possible. I don’t see any evidence you even understood “Eh?”. Now grow the fuck up and \*fix \* your problems instead of huffily insisting you don’t have them. That’s what responsible citzens _do_. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/32 "2008-08-16T21:13:34Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Already done. See above. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Canada Free Press founding editor Judi McLeod is an award-winning journalist with 30 years experience in the print media. Her work has appeared on [Newsmax.com](http://Newsmax.com), Drudge Report, [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com), Glenn Beck and The Rant. If one of our conservative brethren on this board attempted to use such a source as this, you’d be laughing your ass off. I especially like the way the co-author quotes himself as an authority. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/33 "2008-08-16T21:21:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Had any of the 9/11 hijackers ever _been_ to Montreal? [/QUOTE] Fair enough question. [Judge for yourself](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abderraouf_Jdey). > [@](#): > > Jdey was found to be a resident of Montreal, Canada. An international manhunt was launched January 25, 2002 for his companion, also a fellow Tunisian, and Canadian citizen named Faker Boussora, then 37. U.S. officials said the two Tunisian-born Canadians were part of a Canadian group plotting to kill more civilians. Boussora was added to the earlier group of five on the FBI’s “Seeking Information” list, where he still currently remains listed, along with Jdey, under the full name, Faker Ben Abdelazziz Boussora. > > By February 2, 2003, the FBI rearranged its entire wanted lists on its web site, into the current configuration. The outstanding five martyr video suspects (including Jdey’s Montreal associate Boussora) were moved to a separate linked page, titled “Martyrdom Messages/video, Seeking Information Alert” (Although both Jdey and Boussora were later returned to the main FBI list page). Around this time the FBI also changed the name of the list, to the FBI “Seeking Information - War on Terrorism”, to distinguish it from its other wanted list of “Seeking Information,” which the FBI already uses for ordinary fugitives, those who are not terrorists. > > Both the U.S. 9/11 Commission and testimony from Al-Qaeda 9/11 mastermind Khaled Sheikh Mohammed identified Jdey as a prospective “second-wave” highjacker, who would again hijack airplanes to attack the United States. Why do you think [Ressam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam) made his base in Canada, while we’re on the subject? You might read [this PBS transcript](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/etc/canada.html) first, though. Or [this](http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2000/01/26/security000126.html), from the CBC, and before 9/11. Or [this](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_23_18/ai_87917219). And I haven’t even finished Page 1 of Google hits. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/34 "2008-08-16T21:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Already done. See above. :rolleyes: … I would try to find simpler words than “Fuck off” [/QUOTE] You actually had simple words the first time. You said: “Considering that the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal, why would they want to attack it?” Yet you have neither backed it up, nor retracted it. You have said a lot of other stuff about how Canada has terrorists in it - no doubt some truth there; all free and open democracies have the problem of bad guys getting in, even the US and Canada. That would be an interesting discussion in GD - How do we keep out the bad guys while remaining an open society?. Hell, you might even like to read it. But that’s not the point you brought up. Simply give a citation that supports the statement “Considering that the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal”, or own up and admit that you were wrong. All this other stuff is in fact irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/35 "2008-08-16T21:30:22Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Fair enough question. [Judge for yourself](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abderraouf_Jdey). [/quote] Perhaps I was unclear. Had any of the 9/11 hijackers ever been to Montreal? And if further clarification is needed, by “9/11 hijackers”, I refer to the 19 individuals (plus Zacarias Moussaoui, if you wish) who hijacked and crashed planes that day. I’m not denying Montreal has been a harbour for undesirable types, but your very blunt “the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal” surely needs heavy qualification and clarification. What exactly do you mean by “perps”? What exactly do you mean by “based”? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/36 "2008-08-16T21:33:29Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Already done. See above. [/QUOTE] None of your cites refer to any of the 9/11 hijackers being based on Montreal. Your cites refer to OTHER terrorists and alleged terrorists being in Canada (which is hardly surprising, given that there are terrorists everywhere.) But that’s not what your claim was. Ahmed Ressam or Abderraouf Jdey are not relevant. They’re nasty peices of work to be sure, but they were not among the 9/11 terrorists. You can just keep lying if you want. The fact remains your claim was false. You said the 9/11 terrorists were based in Montreal. Either back it up with a cite that specifically shows that the 9/11 terrorists were based in Montreal, retract it, or you’re a liar. Those are your only three choices. Pick one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/37 "2008-08-16T21:36:14Z")
The old **Bricker** trick of trying to narrow the topic enough to produce the answer you want, hmm? I suspected as much. Just so you know: That shit doesn’t work here. The harder you try, the sadder you look. You can go fuck off too now. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/38 "2008-08-16T21:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Why do you think Ressam made his base in Canada, while we’re on the subject? [/Quote] We aren’t on that subject. We are on the subject of 9/11 terrorists being based in Montreal, and how you will talk about anything other than the fact that you were incorrect. On the subject of Ressam, I note Wikipedia says: "On December 14, 1999, Ressam boarded the M/V Coho at Vancouver Island and crossed the border at the Port Angeles, Washington ferry landing. Canadian agents had been watching him for more than two years in Montreal. When he disappeared, Mounties traced him to a motel room in British Columbia where they discovered materials that could be used in making bombs. The Mounties then tipped off US Customs officials of a potential bomb threat to them. (This runs counter to the American myth that his interception was “mostly luck”.) At the US-Canadian border, upon noticing that he appeared nervous, US Customs officers inspected him more closely and asked for further identification. Ressam panicked and attempted to flee. Customs officials then found nitroglycerin and four timing devices concealed in a spare tire well of his rented car. He was arrested by customs, and investigated by the FBI. He had shared a room in Canada with Abdelmajid Dahoumane, a suspected terrorist. A suitcase in the room which they lived in tested positive for chemicals used for making bombs. Ressam began cooperating with investigators in 2001, and revealed that al-Qaida sleeper cells existed within the United States. This information was included in the famous Presidential Daily Briefing delivered to President Bush on August 6, 2001, entitled “Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US”. " Take home message would appear to be: Terrorist was based in Canada, watched by Canadians, who tipped off US. (Thanks, Canada! Appreciate your help!) President told, drops ball. Bad guy in prison on 9/11. Unless Ressam had a time machine, he’s not relevant to the increasingly famous assertion: “Considering that the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal, why would they want to attack it?” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/39 "2008-08-16T21:45:26Z")
[QUOTE=Attack from the 3rd dimension] We aren’t on that subject. [/QUOTE] See above. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569/40 "2008-08-16T21:45:28Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] The harder you try, the sadder you look. [/QUOTE] The only person here that applies to is you. You made a very simple statement: > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Considering that the 9/11 perps themselves were safely based in Montreal, why would they want to attack it? Very simple, very precise, very easy to parse, very easy to understand. That sentence is the topic. You’re the one tap-dancing and attempting to evade it. Y’know, it is actually possible to say, “I was wrong,” without spontaneously combusting. At least, I’ve done it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-liar-or-stupid/459569.md?page=3)