# ElvisL1ves Speaks From the Ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215 "2004-09-05T15:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/101 "2004-09-06T05:20:50Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Hee! Sorry, that was directed at **dropzone**. And let me take the opportunity to add a “:D”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/102 "2004-09-06T05:21:46Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > It’s those two recent polls. Things look grim for their side. Yeah, that must be it. Thanks. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/103 "2004-09-06T05:25:09Z")
Just a guess, but is it possible that the “wasn’t asked for” references the fact that **milroyj** did not, in fact, specifically request that anyone (especially Mssr.s Chitwood and Finch) email him with the relevant information? I think that’s him trying to avoid the issue, but then it does look ugly when one says “cite? cite? cite? cite? cite? cite?” like there’s some grand conspiracy to deny one information, then have to sheepishly return and say “Well shucks, looks like I was wrong.” Strangely enough, though, the Earth has not yet stopped spinning since I typed those words. I wouldn’t worry about you doing the same, **milroyj**. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/104 "2004-09-06T05:27:42Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > But then, they’d _have_ to be, wouldn’t they? 😃 > > d&r Good point. If I had gained even one conservative friend here, I could claim friendship with 25% of the SDMB conservative base. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/105 "2004-09-06T05:28:04Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Sorry, that was directed at **dropzone**. And let me take the opportunity to add a “:D”. I knew you meant me because I know I am funny. A minority opinion, but those who don’t accept it are Philistines. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/106 "2004-09-06T05:29:14Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I knew you meant me because I know I am funny. A minority opinion, but those who don’t accept it are Philistines. 😉 Heathens, even. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/107 "2004-09-06T05:30:23Z")
Ahem: > [@black455](#): > > So, **millie** , care to answer the question that’s on the tip of everybody’s tongue? > > Namely, on your planet, does a cite count if it can’t be found, for free, on the Web? > > Thanx. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/108 "2004-09-06T05:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I knew you meant me because I know I am funny. Remember: _Looks_ aren’t everything! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/109 "2004-09-06T05:34:56Z")
> [@black455](#): > > Ahem: > > [questions snipped] Hey, I’m still waiting for him to answer my questions from back on page 1. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/110 "2004-09-06T05:35:58Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Yeah, that must be it. Thanks. 😉 I can _almost_ sympathize with them. Now they know what 1996 felt like! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/111 "2004-09-06T05:45:26Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > I can _almost_ sympathize with them. Now they know what 1996 felt like! 😉 Yeah, no kidding. By the way, have you started working on your farewell speech yet? I figure if Bush wins, the likes of us won’t be able to show our faces around here for at least 6 months, maybe longer. (And I’m not kidding!) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/112 "2004-09-06T05:51:22Z")
I truly do not understand the argument being made here. I mean, I suppose there’s a case to be made that, although Barbara Bush said X, what she really meant was Y. But how in the world can you deny that she said X? It has been cited again and again and again in this thread that she said X. The television transcript proves it. The UK site proves it. Half a dozen websites on the internet prove it. The Lexis Nexis cite proves it. Going to the library and asking a librarian to log you into Lexis Nexis will prove it. Checking your damn e-mail would prove it. Calling up the ABC newsdesk and asking someone to read you the relevant portion of the transcript will prove it. At this point, Helen Keller would be convinced of the quote’s veracity and yet a few in this thread are not satisfied. At what point does the burden shift over to the one denying the claim to make the barest of efforts to corroborate the evidence given? Is it probable, hell, is it even possible, for someone to, at the very least, say “at the moment, I remain unconvinced…BUT, on Tuesday, when the libraries open, I will go to them and check it out for myself.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/113 "2004-09-06T07:05:58Z")
**Enderw24** , what the hell is a reasonable sounding person like you doing here anyway? Please go play in MPSIMS or GQ and leave us the hell alone! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/114 "2004-09-06T08:08:41Z")
I’m not even going to try to decipher who is asserting what in this thread, and I don’t really care what Barbara Bush did or did not say, but if a poster _is_ claiming that “A LexisNexis cite doesn’t count because you can’t provide a way for me to get to it from a mouse click” that’s just ridiculous. (It seems that LexisNexis articles are available at some public libraries in the USA. At least I remember it was available at my University library.) That would be like someone saying “Book X from Author Y says this on p. 232, you can look it up in the bookstore or in the library” and the opponent replying “Well that doesn’t count as a cite because I don’t have the book right in front of me.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/115 "2004-09-06T14:10:20Z")
Holy shit! I am, as the Brits like to say, gobsmacked. The utter irrationality of some people just has to be seen to be believed. Let me ask the following of **milroyj** , **brutus** , et al: exactly what is it you find unacceptable about my Lexis/Nexis citation? A few possibilities occur to me: \*\*Possibility 1. You simply refuse to accept any citation that cannot be hotlinked on your computer. \*\* If this is the case, might i introduce you to the concept of the _codex_, a remarkable device designed many hundreds of years ago that allows many leaves of paper (or, back then, skins or parchment) to be bound together for easy reading. Nowdays, we tend to refer to the _codex_ by the more common name of “book.” The newspaper adopts a similar, although somewhat simplified, form. Much as this might surprise you, the sum total of humanity’s knowledge is not yet posted on the internet. **Possibility 2. You refuse to accept Lexis/Nexis as an acceptable source.** If this is the case, it simply demonstrates your ignorance. Lexis/Nexis is probably the premier archiving and database service for news, both in the United States and internationally. Here’s a [summary](http://www.lexisnexis.com/academic/universe/Academic/features.asp) of Lexis/Nexis’s services: > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Full-text of more than 350 newspapers from the U.S. and around the world, many same day of publication, plus the most extensive archives available anywhere of _Financial Times_ (dating back to 1982), _The New York Times_ (dating back to 1980) and _The Washington Post_ (dating back to 1977)[/li][li]More than 400 magazines and journals and over 600 newsletters, including: _American Demographics, American Journalism Review, Business Week, The Economist, Ebony, Kirkus Reviews, New Republic, Newsweek, U.S. News & World Report_ and _Variety_[/li][li]Hard-to-find broadcast transcripts from the major television and radio networks, including ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC and NPR, as well as political transcripts covering Congressional committee hearings, press briefings from the State, Justice, and Defense departments, and presidential news conferences[/li][li]Campus news, including the Chronicle of Higher Education and nearly 300 individual college/university papers[/li][li]Wire services, updated several times a day, including respected names such as the Associated Press, Business Wire and PR Newswire[/li][li]Non-English language news sources, available in Spanish, French, German, Italian and Dutch, include both newspapers and magazines[/li][/ul] This service is used by libraries, universities, scholars, law firms, and the media outlets themselves as a reliable record of day-to-day media production around the world. That you apparently define this as an unacceptable source says much about your (lack of) integrity. **Possibility 3. You accept non-linked citations, and you accept that Lexis/Nexis is a reliable source, but you don’t believe that i have quoted accurately.** Well, if this is true then all i can really suggest is that you get yourself to library (you know what that is, right?) and do the search yourself. And if you are accusing me of lying just to support my position, all i can really suggest is that you go and fuck yourself. Finally, **milroyj** had been insisting that someone provide a direct link to the ABC transcript. Well, [here it is](http://web.lexis-nexis.com/universe/document?_m=e2277ffa6b367ffbbe1d9f8b2d2921f7&_docnum=1&wchp=dGLbVtb-zSkVA&_md5=70c5e0260c4c6b0dac3c8edd940b0e6f). Of course, you won’t be able to get access to the page unless you are on a computer that has access to the Lexis/Nexis database. But that’s not my problem, fuck-knuckle. I assure you that if you copy the url from that link, and paste it into the browser on a computer that has access to Lexis/Nexis, you will find the transcript in question. Then, you can print it out, roll it tightly, and shove it right up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![griffen2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce7236/32.png) [@griffen2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffen2)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/116 "2004-09-06T14:18:11Z")
Hopefully that’ll break the vacuum keeping his fucking head up there. Good post **mhendo** ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/117 "2004-09-06T16:20:07Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > So let me get this straight… I called BS on your quote, and I’m a coward? Okaaay. You did so without basis, and continue to refuse to provide it, while being free with the personal insinuations. Therefore … > [@](#): > > And how exactly does one go about proving that a quote is inaccurate? If you’re going to accuse me of lying about it, you had better find a way. > [@](#): > > So an inaccurate quote is OK as long as you think it is representative of someone actions? It is circumstantial evidence \*against \* the quote being invented. Got it? > [@](#): > > I have insuated nothing. Grow the fuck up and cut the shit. Yes, you certainly have. > [@](#): > > I stated the fact that you posted an inaccurate quote. The “fact”, you say? Are you prepared to support that it is a fact? You haven’t yet, you know, despite your assertion to have done so based on the volume of contextual support. No, you _can’t_ say after all that it’s a “fact” that the quote is “inaccurate”? Well, then, perhaps it’s time to reconsider your position re what apologies are owed to whom by whom. > [@](#): > > Give us your cite or retract the quote. I gave one particular cite, and [there are many more available](http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com) for those worth the effort, schmuck. Give us \*your \* evidence that it’s fabricated, as you’ve asserted here, or shut your weaselly little yap - or are you prepared to “prove” every cite you provide to a standard that **milroyj** would be satisfied with? No, you wouldn’t? Then go right ahead and fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/118 "2004-09-06T17:12:40Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I truly do not understand the argument being made here. From the rest of your post, I would say that you understand the argument being made here, just as well as the rest of us. 😛 **Arnold** also described the situation very well. In a nutshell: 1. **milroyj** requests a cite for Mrs. Bush making the statement in question (the cite must have the context of the statement). 2. Someone provides a cite. 3. **milroyj** says (paraphrased): “NO! That’s not a primary source!” 4. Someone provides a link to the primary source. 5. **milroyj** says (paraphrased): “I’m not going to pay money to see the primary source. Provide a different cite.” 6. Someone provides a different cite. 7. Goto 3. > [@Arnold Winkelried](#): > > That would be like someone saying “Book X from Author Y says this on p. 232, you can look it up in the bookstore or in the library” and the opponent replying “Well that doesn’t count as a cite because I don’t have the book right in front of me.” You’re absolutely right, **Arnold**. Which makes this statement: > [@milroyj](#): > > Saying “I read it on the internet, so it must be true” doesn’t cut it. all the more frustrating. * * * In the back of my mind, I am kind of hoping that **milroyj** and **Brutus** haven’t actually been posting to this thread; that maybe a pet cat has been walking on their keyboards or something. Because if this is actually _their_ arguments… suggesting they have the intelligence of a pet cat really is flattering. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/119 "2004-09-06T18:10:18Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > In the back of my mind, I am kind of hoping that **milroyj** and **Brutus** haven’t actually been posting to this thread; that maybe a pet cat has been walking on their keyboards or something. In that case, they would need [this software](http://www.bitboost.com/pawsense/index.html). I love the [warning message](http://www.bitboost.com/pawsense/cat-like-typing-detected.gif) it gives. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/120 "2004-09-06T18:17:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > In that case, they would need this software. > > I love the warning message it gives. Wow. That is great software. Off on a complete tangent-- I wonder what that software would do on my dad’s computer. He isn’t the greatest of spellers, and sometimes he will hit the spacebar, but it won’t register (and so you’re sometimes left with wordsand sentces thatlook likethis). 😃 LilShieste [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215.md?page=7)