# ElvisL1ves Speaks From the Ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 5, 2004, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215 "2004-09-05T15:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/141 "2004-09-07T04:26:07Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Your side is so bad about this kind of thing a slogan has even evolved to explain it: i.e., “To tell the truth is self-defeating, _if_ you’re a liberal.” Guess I must not run in the circles where it evolved. 's the first I’ve seen of it, and I’d like to think (like to think) that truth doesn’t defeat what I want. But then that’s my opinion, I could be wrong. I also coulda sworn that the quote from Barbara Bush was supplied verbatim (if, I think, taken somewhat out of context) more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/142 "2004-09-07T04:36:12Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > Guess I must not run in the circles where it evolved. 's the first I’ve seen of it, and I’d like to think (like to think) that truth doesn’t defeat what I want. But then that’s my opinion, I could be wrong. Nothing personal. Just a dig for a dig. 😉 > [@iampunha](#): > > I also coulda sworn that the quote from Barbara Bush was supplied verbatim (if, I think, taken somewhat out of context) more than once. It was. That’s why I’m confused. The OP claimed an out of context cut-and-paste version of her words which was misleading and untrue. As you say, it was then supplied verbatim several times, thus disproving the version quoted in the OP. **Frostillicus** seems to be saying the quote as it appears in the OP has been verified several times and that I’m refusing to see it. I’m simply asking WTF, as this doesn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/143 "2004-09-07T04:41:39Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Your side is so bad about this kind of thing a slogan has even evolved to explain it: i.e., “To tell the truth is self-defeating, _if_ you’re a liberal.” I’m going to have to ask for a citation on that little phrase. Google is coming up empty for me. Are you sure you’re not just making shit up? [Here’s one of my search attempts](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_qdr=all&q=+%22truth+is+self+defeating%22&btnG=Search) to help get you started. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/144 "2004-09-07T04:54:49Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I’m going to have to ask for a citation on that little phrase. Google is coming up empty for me. Are you sure you’re not just making shit up? No, not really making it up as I have heard it before, probably on some talk program. But as I said to **iampunha** , I was basically just trading digs with **Frostylicious**. Giving as good as I got, so to speak. The slogan really isn’t to be taken seriously. I’m sure there’s plenty of disingenuousity to around on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/145 "2004-09-07T05:01:19Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > That’s why I’m confused. The OP claimed an out of context cut-and-paste version of her words which was misleading and untrue. As you say, it was then supplied verbatim several times, thus disproving the version quoted in the OP. **Frostillicus** seems to be saying the quote as it appears in the OP has been verified several times and that I’m refusing to see it. I’m simply asking WTF, as this doesn’t make sense. I am reminded of at least one military conflict wherein battle ensued after the treaty was signed (word of the peace accord had not yet reached all partied involved). Perhaps this is simply some of that. Re: trading dig for dig, I don’t gotta make up jack shit about W. He’s dug his own;) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/146 "2004-09-07T05:03:09Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’m sorry, but I’m experiencing a major logic disconnect here. Yeah, in your head. But i’m sure that’s congenital and not your fault at all. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > The actual quotes which have been posted numerous times to this thread clearly show that she did not speak the words in the OP in the she was alleged to have spoken them in the OP. A cut-and-paste job was done to make it look like she said what was quoted in the OP, yet you appear to continue to believe that her words as quoted in the OP are correct and I’m refusing to acknowledge it. Is this correct, or am I somehow misunderstanding what you’re driving at? Well, let’s have a look at how this thread started, shall we? And we’ll start with **milroyj** ’s OP. The OP, in full, says: > [@milroyj](#): > > **ElvisL1ves Speaks From the Ass** > > In this thread, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=274416](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...ad.php?t=274416) > > **ElvisL1ves** strenuously makes the claim that Barbara Bush made the following statement on Good Morning America on March 18, 2003. > > > [@Barbara Bush](#): > > > > Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? > > Curiously, though, when pressed for a cite, he, and others, have only been able to provide liberal websites, message boards, and blogs, rather than actual news sites. Now, a quote like this, on the eve of war, by the former First Lady and mother of the current President, surely would have been newsworthy. > > So where is the contemporaneous, primary news source, that shows that Mrs. Bush ever uttered this remark? > > Saying “I read it on the internet, so it must be true” doesn’t cut it. In other words, prove it or shut the fuck up. So, **milroyj** started this thread disputing that Barbara Bush had ever used the words “Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? Oh, I mean, it’s not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?” Now, let’s look at the quote i provided from a Lexis/Nexis search: > [@Lexis/Nexis](#): > > Copyright 2003 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc. > ABC News Transcripts > > **SHOW:** GOOD MORNING AMERICA - ABC > > March 18, 2003 Tuesday > > LENGTH: 1715 words > > HEADLINE: BRINK OF WAR FORMER PRESIDENT BUSH AND BARBARA BUSH SPEAK OUT ABOUT WAR > > \ > > DIANE SAWYER > > (Off Camera) You said that, that Mrs. Bush at one point had said to the two of you, don’t watch too much TV. You may be watching too much TV. > > FORMER FIRST LADY BARBARA BUSH > > No question. > > DIANE SAWYER > > (Off Camera) You do watch? > > FORMER FIRST LADY BARBARA BUSH > > I watch none. He sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don’t take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we’re talking about the news. And he’s not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that. **But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it’s gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it’s, it’s not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that.** And watch him suffer. > > FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH > > You know, you’re gonna get us in real trouble. Does that worry you at all? > > FORMER FIRST LADY BARBARA BUSH > > About what? > > FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH > > Because we keep saying we’re not gonna do interviews, we’re not gonna talk about Iraq. But she hit the right button 'cause she talked . . . > > FORMER FIRST LADY BARBARA BUSH > > We’re not talking about Iraq. We’re talking about our son. As you can see, there’s a slight difference between what **milroyj** posted in his OP and what Barbara Bush actually said. But if there’s any fault for this, it lies with **milroyj**. You see, **milroyj** posted his OP at 11.11am on September 5. Yet, at 7.08am on September 4 (i.e., over 28 hours earlier) **ElvisL1ves** had posted a [quotation](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5235765&postcount=129) that agreed, word for word, with the one i found on Lexis/Nexis. **ElvisL1ves** never, ever said what **milroyj** accused him of saying. So, **milroyj** ’s OP in this thread was a disingenuous one, a misrepresentation of what **ElvisL1ves** had actually written in the earlier thread. If you don’t believe me, take a look at the [original thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274416&page=1&pp=50), the one that spawned this one. It contains seven posts by **ElvisL1ves** , and i defy you to find a single post where **ElvisL1ves** offers the same quotation that **milroyj** uses in his OP. This thread was based on a lie, and compounded by idiocy which you seem intent on perpetuating in an effort to support your intellectual doppelganger **milroyj**. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/147 "2004-09-07T06:35:19Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Well I guess this should teach me a lesson. > > I clear the matter up in the fourth post in the thread; yes she said, but it’s been taken out of context. But does it make the slightest difference to the jerkoids spoiling for an argument, or the surrounding peanut gallery? Not in the slightest. > > Ah well, please do carry on, don’t let me get in the way. Now you know how the mediators in the Israeli/Palestinian crisis must feel. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/148 "2004-09-07T17:36:48Z")
In five years of lurking and occasional posting, I don’t believe I’ve ever seen so classless a display of behavior as **Milroyj’s** in this thread. If you now believe Barbara Bush said what she allegedly said, then admit it and either discuss it or move on. If you still deny she said it, then explain why. Whining for cites and then figuratively spitting on the people who provide them is stunningly childish. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/149 "2004-09-07T18:17:03Z")
**milroyj’s** like the Energizer Bunny on coke _with_ a case of diarrhea. Turd after turd after turd just keep popping out – barely disguised as “posts.” Good thing there are people like **Brutus** around to lap them up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/150 "2004-09-07T20:33:31Z")
**starving artist** , I think there’s one thing you can learn from this debacle: **never trust a word that milroyj says**. I’d give **Brutus** the same advice, but I’m afraid he’s too far gone. I don’t think you are. There are smart and honest conservatives on this board. **milroyj** is not among them. He is, and I say this calmly and without rancor, contemptible, and not worth your time. Defend him, and you’re setting yourself up for a huge embarassment. Sure, on occasion he might be right about something (theoretically–I’ve never seen it happen). But **do not trust his own claims**. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/151 "2004-09-07T20:35:42Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > [Sure, on occasion he might be right about something (theoretically–I’ve never seen it happen). Well, as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. Unfortunately, **milroyj** isn’t even _that_ accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/152 "2004-09-07T20:44:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. He’s not so much broken as he is really, really slow. And a really slow clock is not right nearly so often. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/153 "2004-09-07T21:39:09Z")
**Starving Artist** , my fine dumpling, my pet conservative, I join with **Left Hand of Dorkness** to implore you: Save your passionate defenses for those worthy of them. This board NEEDS a strong, thoughtful conservative side in the debates, but **milroyj** isn’t it. Please don’t dissipate your energies on rallying to putative allies who do more harm than good for your cause. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/154 "2004-09-08T00:57:56Z")
**ETF** , **LHoD** , thank you for your advice. (And to you, **ETF** , I appreciate the fond appellations. 😉 ) I have many friends here on both sides of the “aisle,” so to speak, and I appreciate your concern. But my purpose in posting wasn’t to defend **milroyj** , it was to point out that Barbara Bush didn’t really say what was quoted in the OP. True, **Futile Gesture** said as much in post #4, but no one seemed to be paying any attention. The main thrust of the thread seemed to be the validity of the various cites, rather than the fact that Barbara Bush’s quote was taken out of context and made to appear other than it really was. I wanted to bring attention back to that fact, as it appeared everyone was accepting the quote in the OP at face value. As far as **milroyj** goes, I’m aware he’s one of the four conservatives on this board ;), but I haven’t paid a great deal of attention to his posts in the main. (I get into enough trouble on my own, and have to spend most of my time defending my own posts.) 😃 It seems though that a nerve was struck in this thread, and based on his response I have to say I feel badly for him. If he does indeed have such a problem he is deserving of our best wishes and encouragement, as he has greater sadness and unhappiness in his life than anything anyone here could ever make him feel through their vitriol. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/155 "2004-09-08T01:20:43Z")
I’ll say this much in **milroyj** ’s defence: I once confused the Founding Fathers with the framers of the Constitution in a post blasting him. An incredibly stupid mistake on my behalf, but he was very cool about letting me off the hook when I admitted my mistake. So he’s not all bad. Unfortunetly, he’s also dumb as a post. And I say this as a liberal who counts both **Starving Artist** and **Brutus** among his favorite posters. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/156 "2004-09-08T01:52:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And I say this as a liberal who counts both **Starving Artist** and **Brutus** among his favorite posters. Thanks, **Miller**. I appreciate that, especially as I can count you as one of the posters I have learned from. 🙂 I have to say I get a kick out of **Brutus**. He’s kind of like an **elucidator** of the right…or should I say an **eluciator** _who_ is right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/157 "2004-09-08T02:03:21Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > This board NEEDS a strong, thoughtful conservative side in the debates, … No shit. What this board needs, in my extremely unqualified, you-didn’t-ask-but-I-paid-to-post-so-you-gotta-suffer opinion, is folks who have their personal opinions but are (shock and awe) able to consider that their counterparts on whichever side (or those of us more-or-less firmly in the middle) have solid marks against those same opinions. One big reason I stay out of GD is that in too many cases it seems folks are more interested in winning the debate, skirting the personal insult line (“Well, everyone I’ve ever known who said that was an absolute moron…”) and generally spewing as much hateful partisan bile as they can … than they are in considering opposing viewpoints, examining evidence they might not have seen before and admitting they might be wrong (I am as guilty as the next in that last department, of course;)). Of course, too many cases, to me, is one or two on the front page, but since they sometimes contain really important ideas that need to be fleshed out without someone coming and saying “You doofus, [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) has never been an accepted cite. Why don’t you go masturbate to pictures of Clinton again?” or “You bridge-dweller, you know fox news makes money on the side killing babies for sport!”, that becomes a real issue and lessens enjoyment of the board, which is I think one reason we’re all here;) :: pant pant pant :: I would hazard a guess that milroyj will not be so quick to carelessness elsewhere as he was here. Lastly, I find this appropriate. It’s the sig on a listserv of which I am a member: “Please keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you have to eat them.” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/158 "2004-09-08T03:32:48Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > But my purpose in posting wasn’t to defend **milroyj** , it was to point out that Barbara Bush didn’t really say what was quoted in the OP. True, **Futile Gesture** said as much in post #4, but no one seemed to be paying any attention. The main thrust of the thread seemed to be the validity of the various cites, rather than the fact that Barbara Bush’s quote was taken out of context and made to appear other than it really was. I wanted to bring attention back to that fact, as it appeared everyone was accepting the quote in the OP at face value. Well, it seemed to me that most people caught on fairly quickly to the fact that **milroyj** was the one distorting the actual words said into something more pejorative, to make his attack on **ElvisL1ves** harsher. The lack of debate about what her actual language and intent were I believe was attributable primarily to the OP’s playing Goldilocks and the Three Cites: “That cite’s too partisan! That cite’s too expensive! That cite’s not on the Internet!” You may notice that once the validity of the full quote was established (to everyone but **milroyj’s** satisfaction), Mrs. Bush’s words were duly parsed. > [@](#): > > As far as **milroyj** goes, I’m aware he’s one of the four conservatives on this board ;), but I haven’t paid a great deal of attention to his posts in the main. (I get into enough trouble on my own, and have to spend most of my time defending my own posts.) 😃 We’ve noticed. 😛 > [@](#): > > It seems though that a nerve was struck in this thread, and based on his response I have to say I feel badly for him. If he does indeed have such a problem he is deserving of our best wishes and encouragement, as he has greater sadness and unhappiness in his life than anything anyone here could ever make him feel through their vitriol. It’s harder for me to feel badly for him, since I’ve read far too much of his own idiotic vitriol to have much sympathy. Now, if he were at least capable of spewing clever, witty vitriol, I might give more of a damn. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/159 "2004-09-08T08:03:57Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I have to say I get a kick out of **Brutus**. He’s kind of like an **elucidator** of the right…or should I say an **eluciator** _who_ is right? As if we needed further proof that your sense of judgement is _waaaaaaaaaaaay_ out of alignment. (What’s next, Carrot Top as the next Stephen Hawking?) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/elvisl1ves-speaks-from-the-ass/263215/160 "2004-09-08T08:18:14Z")
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