# Email service used by Snowden shuts itself down, warns against using US-based companies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846 "2013-08-10T00:11:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/21 "2013-08-10T18:50:08Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Haha that was a good one. 1. Edward Snowden is wanted for espionage. 2. Edward Snowden has, by his own admission, provided classified information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States. 3. Lavabit provided aid and comfort to Edward Snowden by allowing him to use their service while being aware of the above-mentioned acts of treason. 4. Edward Snowden has an unknown quantity of classified information still in his possession which he may or may not continue releasing indiscriminately, or offer to enemy/hostile nations in exchange for asylum/money/political favors. Which of these statements is untrue? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/22 "2013-08-10T19:21:40Z")
God, you really have swallowed the corporate propaganda wholesale. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/23 "2013-08-10T19:47:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 1. Edward Snowden has, by his own admission, provided classified information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States. By “enemies of the United States”, I assume you mean the free press? Or perhaps the American people? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/24 "2013-08-10T19:52:36Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Step one: quit reelecting the assholes responsible for this garbage. … That sort of stupidity is exactly why the CIA loves Obama, because he puts a friendly face on the same old monster. So we can’t blame you because you voted for Kodos? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/25 "2013-08-10T20:09:19Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > By “enemies of the United States”, I assume you mean the free press? And everyone with access to what the press publishes, citizen or enemy alike. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/26 "2013-08-10T20:14:32Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > God, you really have swallowed the corporate propaganda wholesale. Tell me which of the above statements is untrue, then. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/27 "2013-08-10T22:50:15Z")
Can we get past high school debating club? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/28 "2013-08-10T23:09:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Tell me which of the above statements is untrue, then. What American lives has he put at risk? As someone who is both American and alive, this could be vital information. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/29 "2013-08-12T11:15:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What American lives has he put at risk? As someone who is both American and alive, this could be vital information. **Miller**! The posts are coming from INSIDE the house!!! ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/30 "2013-08-12T14:26:22Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Step one: quit reelecting the assholes responsible for this garbage. Supporting these attacks on the American people should be a death sentence for your career. And don’t give me any bullshit about the Republicans being worse. That sort of stupidity is exactly why the CIA loves Obama, because he puts a friendly face on the same old monster. The Federal government is not going to reform itself no matter who you elect. It’s never going to happen. If we do see reform it will be under Article 5 of the US Constitution. > [@](#): > > The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, **or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments** , which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. The states have the ability to amend the constitution and the Federal government. This is the only way it’s going to happen. I don’t care how hopey and changey of a candidate you send to U.S. congress or the white house. This will only get worse until the states can gather enough momentum to put an end to this maddness. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/31 "2013-08-12T14:38:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Let’s say I invent a customized invisibility cloak, and decide to sell it via my website. If the government asks me for my sales records, or access to my new invention that will allow one to see people wearing my cloak, should I comply? Would it be prudent to sell it in the first place? Who do you think would be the main consumers of such a product? Ninjas? > [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > This will only get worse until the states can gather enough momentum to put an end to this maddness. The states have no interest in putting an end to this madness. They benefit from this sort of snooping even more than the Feds do; more, in fact, now that it can be used to catch garden-variety criminals instead of foreign terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/32 "2013-08-12T15:12:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Ninjas? > > The states have no interest in putting an end to this madness. They benefit from this sort of snooping even more than the Feds do; more, in fact, now that it can be used to catch garden-variety criminals instead of foreign terrorists. There is no way the overgrow behemoth federal government is going to reform itself. State legislatures are more responsive than the federal government which has overstepped its authority under the constitution. A state convention is the easiest way the federal government can be reigned in. The alternative is to bend over, spread 'em, and hope the nice police state bureaucrat doesn’t find anything questionable. That’s not to say it will be easy. But it could happen. It needs to happen. The power of the states to propose amendments was built into the constitution because its authors had the prescience to predict the federal government could become authoritarian and unresponsive. This has now happened. The citizens are being treated like we’re the enemy and it has to fucking stop somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/33 "2013-08-12T18:56:20Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > There is no way the overgrow behemoth federal government is going to reform itself. State legislatures are more responsive than the federal government which has overstepped its authority under the constitution. A state convention is the easiest way the federal government can be reigned in. What planet are you living on where state governments are more decent, accountable, and honest than the federal government? Because I live on a planet where as recently as half a century ago several states attempted to shut down their public education programs entirely so that they wouldn’t have to admit black students. I live on a planet where state governments are, _right now_, passing unconstitutional laws to ban abortion or harass abortion providers into insolvency. I live on a planet where state legislators illegally conspired to change the timestamp on a bill so they wouldn’t have to wait another two weeks to pass such an unconstitutional abortion ban. I live on a planet where state governments pass laws declaring that global warming is not happening and order ecological officials to ignore their own data when it’s politically inconvenient. I live on a planet where state governments pass laws prohibiting officials from providing healthcare to the public in accordance with federal law. I live on a planet where state governments spend thousands of hours passing laws aimed at conspiracy theory beliefs about gun control, the UN, and “Sharia law”. I live on a planet where 37 states have laws banning consenting adults who love each other from marrying because religious institutions find their love to be icky. I live on a planet where a state Supreme Court justice can unconstitutionally install a religious monument in a courthouse and be reelected for doing it. I live on a planet where a state governor can use her power to have her sister’s ex-wife fired from his state job and suffer no negative repercussions for that act. If you allow the states to call a constitutional convention, you’ll get a basket of amendments banning abortion, declaring Christianity the state religion, abolishing all federal taxes, and prohibiting anyone swarthier than Russell Brand from becoming a US citizen. What you _won’t_ get is anything protecting the “rights” that you believe you’re being deprived of. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/34 "2013-08-12T22:58:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 1. Edward Snowden is wanted for espionage. Yes, and for theft of government property. > [@](#): > > 1. Edward Snowden has, by his own admission, provided classified information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States. Bullshit, he provided the information to the American People and the Press. This kind of disclosure is the entire reason that whistle blower statutes exist, to give free speech protections in cases of corruption or crimes by the government or employers. > [@](#): > > 1. Lavabit provided aid and comfort to Edward Snowden by allowing him to use their service while being aware of the above-mentioned acts of treason. Wait, you are now claiming that Snowden committed Treason? How, specifically, did he aid our enemies? All of _them_ know that phones and internet communications are tapped by the NSA. What Snowden revealed was that the NSA is monitoring every citizen’s phone calls as well as all the information gathered by Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Apple, Skype, etc… They were then giving selected bits of this information to the DEA and the IRS where it was used to profile and go after US citizens. If this isn’t a case of corruption of the laws of the US, I don’t know what qualifies. Regarding Lavabit giving aid and comfort to Snowden, are you implying Lavabit has committed treason? I can only assume so with the verbiage you are using. Surely if this counts as treason, they should also go after United Airlines for flying him to China and Dell for making the computer he used to store and email the information. > [@](#): > > 1. Edward Snowden has an unknown quantity of classified information still in his possession which he may or may not continue releasing indiscriminately, or offer to enemy/hostile nations in exchange for asylum/money/political favors. Cite? How do you know this? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/35 "2013-08-13T02:00:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Court records show that, in June, Lavabit complied with a routine search warrant targeting a child pornography suspect in a federal case in Maryland. That suggests that Levison isn’t a privacy absolutist. Whatever compelled him to shut down now must have been exceptional. And that’s the thing – these providers \*\* were willing to cooperate when there was _a lawful warrant_ on the matter of an actual crime.\*\* They are **not** out to protect child pornographers, etc. You may say, this sort of thing is enabling the likes of Snowden. Same sort of thing enables dissidents of regimes that _deserve_ to fall, the kind that make dissenters disappear rather than put them on trial. And some of us feel it’s none of anyone’s business to know about us what we do not want them to just because it is none of their business however badly they may want it to be so; and it should not be a requirement for a normal productive life to have to opt in by default, with the alternative if you do not wish to be monitored being to just plow your own land by a cabin in the woods and communicate exclusively by letter post. As mentioned, the authorities have even gagged these providers from saying what \*was \*the problem _about_. That hinders them from appealing to public opinion so that the public will compel their representatives to change their ways. (Though \*\*Smapti \*\*does have a point about what kind of Constitutional Convention could arise out of the current states:eek:…) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/36 "2013-08-13T02:25:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > 1. Edward Snowden is wanted for espionage. > 2. Edward Snowden has, by his own admission, provided classified information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States. > 3. Lavabit provided aid and comfort to Edward Snowden by allowing him to use their service while being aware of the above-mentioned acts of treason. > 4. Edward Snowden has an unknown quantity of classified information still in his possession which he may or may not continue releasing indiscriminately, or offer to enemy/hostile nations in exchange for asylum/money/political favors. > > Which of these statements is untrue? Number two is wrong. Snowden did not release information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States, nor did he admit to doing so. He released information meticulously to Glenn Greenwald, who is a critic of the US government, not an enemy of the United States. The enemies of the United States are the ones who perpetrated, lied, and covered up these abuses of power. You commit the jingoistic error of conflating country with government. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/37 "2013-08-13T18:52:30Z")
Here is a more detailed interview with the owner of Lavabit: > **[EXCLUSIVE: Owner of Snowden’s Email Service on Why He Closed Lavabit Rather...](https://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/13/exclusive_owner_of_snowdens_email_service)** > > Lavabit, an encrypted email service believed to have been used by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, has abruptly shut down. The move came amidst a legal fight that appeared to involve U.S. government attempts to win access to customer... Still gagged on many details though. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/38 "2013-08-13T19:10:30Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Number two is wrong. Snowden did not release information indiscriminately to enemies of the United States, nor did he admit to doing so. He released information meticulously to Glenn Greenwald, who is a critic of the US government, not an enemy of the United States. > > The enemies of the United States are the ones who perpetrated, lied, and covered up these abuses of power. You commit the jingoistic error of conflating country with government. I disagree. The enemies of the United States are the people who wish to kill me for no reason other than that I am an American. And by “meticulously releasing information to a critic of the US government”, Snowden has made sure that each and every one of those people knows, in considerably more detail than they did previously, the ways in which this country is trying to thwart them and how to make sure their plans stay secret until they get the body count they’re hoping for. Jingoism has nothing to do with it - I feel that my right to not be murdered by terrorists trumps your right to feel vaguely self-assured that info about who you send emails to isn’t being collated into a file that chances are nobody will ever look at. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/39 "2013-08-13T19:24:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And by “meticulously releasing information to a critic of the US government”, Snowden has made sure that each and every one of those people knows, in considerably more detail than they did previously, the ways in which this country is trying to thwart them and how to make sure their plans stay secret until they get the body count they’re hoping for. Except that’s completely untrue. The supposed enemies of the US you’re concerned about already assumed any electronic comms would be monitored, and I’d imagine are taking a number of fairly simple routine steps to work around that. What Snowden revealed is that actually the eavesdropping being conducted is applied to a far more massive section of the world than likely terrorists or enemies of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846/40 "2013-08-13T19:40:01Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Except that’s completely untrue. The supposed enemies of the US you’re concerned about already assumed any electronic comms would be monitored, and I’d imagine are taking a number of fairly simple routine steps to work around that. > > What Snowden revealed is that actually the eavesdropping being conducted is applied to a far more massive section of the world than likely terrorists or enemies of the US. I’ve not seen that this surveillance is being applied against anyone who doesn’t deserve it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/email-service-used-by-snowden-shuts-itself-down-warns-against-using-us-based-companies/665846.md?page=3)