# Embassy Closings **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354 "2013-08-04T21:33:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/341 "2013-08-11T22:02:22Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Go look up US State Dept. drones flying over Iraq last year and pissing people off. Go look up Iraq/US intelligence cooperation and anti-terrorism cooperation and military sales cooperation and fuck it. Just go read something about it. The absence of cites is only outdone by the absence of any relevant conclusion that I’m supposed to reach. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/342 "2013-08-11T23:12:38Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > OTOH, AQ is America enemy numero uno. I mean, it’s true that we defeated them and sent them running and brought them to their knees and broke their back and and and… > > oh turns out AQ is franchised and all we did was break up one cell, sorta. AQ is still enemy #1. We are the World Al Qaeda police and if you don’t believe me ask the friends and relatives of the 1,000+ people we’ve killed in other countries with our drones. Of that 1,000, only 30 some were AQ combatants, BTW. Unless they are fighting even bigger enemy like Russia or Syria. Then, US and Al Q are BFF’s. It’s a side note but it was funny - today, number of Kurds (Turkey, Iraq and Syria) were protesting at Toronto US Embassy (this one is open, BTW) suggesting that Obama should not send money to Al Q in Syria to fight Assad b/c what happens is that Kurds (as always) get the short end of the stick. At one point, radio show host (happens to be a known “liberal” Muslim dude) and a couple of Kurdish protest organizers were in total shock and disbelief repeating throughout the show a phrase “I don’t get it. I just don get it.” - the topic was US policy in Middle East 😃 ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/343 "2013-08-11T23:18:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The absence of cites is only outdone by the absence of any relevant conclusion that I’m supposed to reach. > > What is your point? The point is that on some Iraqi Dope message board, there’s a guy who claims in a conspiracy style that someone knew ahead of time there will be some bombing happening and didn’t share intel. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/344 "2013-08-12T05:41:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I hear the Fox News forums have ample discussion on that topic. Perhaps you can take the hijack over there. You brought up his comments. You can take it wherever you want. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/345 "2013-08-12T05:44:57Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He was sent to prison because his actions in the making of the movie violated his probation, and the existence of the movie became common knowledge when Rice connected it to the attack. So, no, it’s not a coincidence, but it’s also not retaliation, I don’t think. How could it NOT be retaliation? It’s clearly linked to the accusation that it caused the Benghazi attack. He was prosecuted as a foreign policy publicity stunt based on a lie. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/346 "2013-08-12T06:36:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He was sent to prison because his actions in the making of the movie violated his probation, and the existence of the movie became common knowledge when Rice connected it to the attack. So, no, it’s not a coincidence, but it’s also not retaliation, I don’t think. And it’s a hijack which doesn’t have much to do with the embassy closings (other than that the Administration might be reacting to make sure another Benghazi didn’t happen in ordering the embassy closings.) Isn’t it silly to assume anyone had special knowledge of the Benghazi attacks when one year later we close 19 embassies because we have no idea what threat we might face? I went back and checked the NYT coverage from that day, a year ago. The movie and its protests were all over the ME, the US embassy in Cairo had protesters crawling over the wall and ransacking embassy grounds and then the same thing happened in Benghazi. Everyone thought it was protesters. If we can’t get any reliable intel now, why would we have had it a year ago in Benghazi? These conspiracy theories about Rice trying to make it look like a protest are transparent as hell. The whole world thought it was a protest because it was a protest. Militants used the protest as cover. We didn’t have intel then and we don’t have intel now beyond, “close the middle east! There might be an attack!” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/347 "2013-08-12T14:52:46Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Isn’t it silly to assume anyone had special knowledge of the Benghazi attacks when one year later we close 19 embassies because we have no idea what threat we might face? > > I went back and checked the NYT coverage from that day, a year ago. The movie and its protests were all over the ME, the US embassy in Cairo had protesters crawling over the wall and ransacking embassy grounds and then the same thing happened in Benghazi. Everyone thought it was protesters. > > If we can’t get any reliable intel now, why would we have had it a year ago in Benghazi? These conspiracy theories about Rice trying to make it look like a protest are transparent as hell. The whole world thought it was a protest because it was a protest. Militants used the protest as cover. We didn’t have intel then and we don’t have intel now beyond, “close the middle east! There might be an attack!” [They knew they fucked it up on day one.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/) There is no rational excuse for sending Rice out in front of cameras with disinformation. They lied plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/348 "2013-08-12T15:18:46Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > You’ve had them already. Besides if you’re informed enough to have an opinion then you know full well they are claiming ‘chatter’ alerted then and that Biden briefed Congress critters who them ran around the TV studios saying ‘see- see, the NSA Magic Rock saves us yet again’. > > It’s all political bullshit scare-mongering to defend their mass surveillance program. > > Terrorists? In the Yemen? Miffed with the USA your say? Hold the front page why don’t ya. > > And yes, given the decade after decade of lies from the US Govt of any stripe - my default position is that any informed person should now be taking. Anything they say is at very best a half truth designed to forward their own agenda. And in this case the agenda is plain - defend a system that is under attack. Thanks for saving me the time to compose a response. Clearly a look over there! tactic when proven to be everything they aren’t…a Police State. Might well work though when you have Obots aplenty. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/349 "2013-08-12T15:36:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [They knew they fucked it up on day one.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57584921/officials-on-benghazi-we-made-mistakes-but-without-malice/) There is no rational excuse for sending Rice out in front of cameras with disinformation. They lied plain and simple. That article doesn’t say what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/350 "2013-08-12T16:14:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And you are so sure of this conclusion that you are willing to bet other people’s lives on it. Nice. Yes I am sure of it and i don’t think it’s any type of risky bet. But as the USA is willing to bet the lives of its own people by it’s own ‘terror from the skies’ approach across the Muslim world. Create the terrorists with drones and then institute mass surveillance to ‘protect us’ from them. And people fall for this. [Drones breed Al-Q sympathy in Yemen](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-05-29/world/35456187_1_aqap-drone-strikes-qaeda) > [@](#): > > Across the vast, rugged terrain of southern Yemen, an escalating campaign of U.S. drone strikes is stirring increasing sympathy for al-Qaeda-linked militants and driving tribesmen to join a network linked to terrorist plots against the United States. > > After recent U.S. missile strikes, mostly from unmanned aircraft, the Yemeni government and the United States have reported that the attacks killed only suspected al-Qaeda members. But civilians have also died in the attacks, said tribal leaders, victims’ relatives and human rights activists. > > “These attacks are making people say, ‘We believe now that al-Qaeda is on the right side,’ ” said businessman Salim al-Barakani, adding that his two brothers — one a teacher, the other a cellphone repairman — were killed in a U.S. strike in March. Cutting this sort of shit out would do more for saving all those preciosu american lives than my opinions expressed on a message board. And in more general terms I do not believe the ‘terrorist threat’ comes even vaguely close to justifying the USA, the UK or anyone instituting a mass surveillance State. It’s a tool shaped for the hands of tyranny. It’s absolutely frightening and it is absolutely out of control. [NSA Total Surveillance System](http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/11/nsa-internet-surveillance-email?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-5%20Eds%20picks%201:Network%20front%20-%20all-purpose%20editable%20trailblock:Position2) > [@](#): > > Another burst of sunlight permeated the National Security Agency’s black box of domestic surveillance last week. > > According to the New York Times, the NSA is searching the content of virtually every email that comes into or goes out of the United States without a warrant. To accomplish this astonishing invasion of Americans’ privacy, the NSA reportedly is making a copy of nearly every international email. It then searches that cloned data, keeping all of the emails containing certain keywords and deleting the rest – all in a matter of seconds. > [@](#): > > Last week’s revelations are a disturbing harbinger of future surveillance. Two months ago, this newspaper reported that the US government has been forcing American telecommunications companies to turn over the call records of every one of their customers “on an ongoing daily basis”, to allow the NSA to later search those records when it has a reason to do so. The government has since defended the program, in part on the theory that Americans’ right to privacy is not implicated by the initial acquisition of their phone records, only by their later searching. > > That legal theory is extraordinarily dangerous because it would allow the NSA to acquire virtually all digital information today simply because it might possibly become relevant tomorrow. The surveillance program revealed by the New York Times report goes one step further still. No longer is the government simply collecting information now so that the data is available to search, should a reasonable suspicion arise at some point in the future; the NSA is searching everything now – in real time and without suspicion – merely on the chance that it finds something of interest. > > If the government is correct that it can search our every communication in case we say or type something suspicious, there is little to prevent the NSA from converting the internet into a tool of pervasive surveillance. If the price of safety is Big Brother then yes, I’m prepared to accept successful terrorist attacks. Not that I have seen one single scintilla of proof that the NSA mass surveillance has successfully saved one life. I’m quite taken aback by the sheer gutlessness of people nowadays - practically insisting on throwing away their privacy, their right not to have their every digital move scrutinised. I can’t but help think how many more lives would be saved if we had always on video monitoring of our living rooms through the TV. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/351 "2013-08-12T16:22:38Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That article doesn’t say what you think it does. "As I said before, she made an appearance at the request of the White House in which she gave her best understanding of the intelligence that had been provided to her,"[Obama said at the press conference](http://www.examiner.com/article/did-white-house-admit-to-benghazi-cover-up), defending the statements the ambassador to the U.N. made regarding the Benghazi attack. [From CBS](http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/benghazi-news-attack-talking-points-cia-edited-white-19149423):But I have obtained twelve different versions of those talking points that shows that they were dramatically edited by the administration take a look at two of them. On the left a draft initially written by the CIA on the right one it was used by the White House the final version. What was taken out all references to al-Qaeda. It was a deliberate, calculated lie on the part of the White house and they used Susan Rice to deliver it and then abused the legal system to put a film maker in jail. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/352 "2013-08-12T23:14:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How could it NOT be retaliation? It’s clearly linked to the accusation that it caused the Benghazi attack. He was prosecuted as a foreign policy publicity stunt based on a lie. He violated his probation. He was punished for that. Why do you object to that? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/353 "2013-08-12T23:16:34Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Isn’t it silly to assume anyone had special knowledge of the Benghazi attacks when one year later we close 19 embassies because we have no idea what threat we might face? When did I claim that anyone had special knowledge of the Benghazi attacks? I’m saying that, because of the Benghazi attacks, the US government is more sensitive to the threats of attacks on embassies, and so the shutting down of the embassies was to prevent something like Benghazi from happening again. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/354 "2013-08-12T23:17:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > When did I claim that anyone had special knowledge of the Benghazi attacks? I’m saying that, because of the Benghazi attacks, the US government is more sensitive to the threats of attacks on embassies, and so the shutting down of the embassies was to prevent something like Benghazi from happening again. I wasn’t really arguing with you. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/355 "2013-08-12T23:35:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was a deliberate, calculated lie on the part of the White house and they used Susan Rice to deliver it and then abused the legal system to put a film maker in jail. It wasn’t. The drafts show a pissing contest between the FBI and the State Department. The change you’re talking about pretty much changed “militants linked to al-Qaeda” to “militants”. Here’s the actual e-mails showing the way the talking points developed. It’s not really the way you’re describing it: [http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/white-house-emails-documents-benghazi-talking-points-full-text-pdf-91467.html](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/white-house-emails-documents-benghazi-talking-points-full-text-pdf-91467.html) But, really, if you read it, this is the standard bureaucratic bullshit that happens whenever you have individuals from different agencies or divisions contributing to a document. You get a watered down version that really doesn’t say much. It’s not partisan politics. It’s bureaucratic politics. If you’ve ever worked in some agency that does stuff interdepartmentally, it should be familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/356 "2013-08-13T03:57:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It wasn’t. The drafts show a pissing contest between the FBI and the State Department. The change you’re talking about pretty much changed “militants linked to al-Qaeda” to “militants”. > > Here’s the actual e-mails showing the way the talking points developed. It’s not really the way you’re describing it: > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/white-house-emails-documents-benghazi-talking-points-full-text-pdf-91467.html](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/white-house-emails-documents-benghazi-talking-points-full-text-pdf-91467.html) > > But, really, if you read it, this is the standard bureaucratic bullshit that happens whenever you have individuals from different agencies or divisions contributing to a document. You get a watered down version that really doesn’t say much. It’s not partisan politics. It’s bureaucratic politics. If you’ve ever worked in some agency that does stuff interdepartmentally, it should be familiar. as stated above it was the CIA’s assessment that the WH blew off. Those would be the people on the ground in Libya tasked with dealing with terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/357 "2013-08-13T04:14:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He violated his probation. He was punished for that. Why do you object to that? He was punished as a diversion from the WH’s failure to respond to an 8 hr attack against a US embassy. It was a lie and the WH knew it was a lie. I object to the WH using him as a pawn for their own failings. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/358 "2013-08-28T03:25:11Z")
While “Embassy Closings” buzzword of the week has gone into darkness of archived news cycles, the new calls are being intercepted that “prove” who did gassing in Syria - [http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/27/exclusive\_us\_spies\_say\_intercepted\_calls\_prove\_syrias\_army\_used\_nerve\_gas](http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/27/exclusive_us_spies_say_intercepted_calls_prove_syrias_army_used_nerve_gas) Seriously… why do they even bother BS-in this much? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354/359 "2013-08-29T21:23:56Z")
Nice\* picture in that article of dead bodies wrapped up for burial the way Islam prescribes (except the faces shouldn’t have been showing). Just one problem. Corpses who have been killed by Sarin generally aren’t nearly that (facially) pretty, and can’t be easily wrapped up that way. I’m skeptical. - for certain values of ‘nice’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/embassy-closings/665354.md?page=17)