# Emergency Jet Landing Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 15, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327 "2013-10-15T17:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/1 "2013-10-15T17:25:30Z")
A passenger jet is flying at cruising altitude. Because of [insert calamitous problem here], the plane needs to land _ **NOW** _. Assume no mechanical or weather problems. Assume there are plenty of airports to choose from in good proximity. Under the best of circumstances, how long is it from the time the pilot decides to land the craft until the time the wheels are on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/2 "2013-10-15T17:34:34Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > A passenger jet is flying at cruising altitude. Because of [insert calamitous problem here], the plane needs to land _ **NOW** _. Assume no mechanical or weather problems. Assume there are plenty of airports to choose from in good proximity. > > Under the best of circumstances, how long is it from the time the pilot decides to land the craft until the time the wheels are on the ground? Need answer fast? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/3 "2013-10-15T17:46:07Z")
In 1983, Air Canada flight 143 basically ran out of fuel at 41,000 feet due to math errors trying to convert between gallons and liters. They descended down to 35,000 feet before the second engine cut out. They didn’t have enough altitude to get to a decent airfield, so they landed at Gimli airport, which was closed and was being used for car races at the time. Miraculously, no one on the ground was killed or injured. This forever earned the plane the nickname the “Gimli Glider”. > **[Gimli Glider](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider)** > > Air Canada Flight 143, commonly known as the Gimli Glider, was a Canadian scheduled domestic passenger flight between Montreal and Edmonton that ran out of fuel on Saturday, July 23, 1983, at an altitude of 41,000 feet (12,500 m), midway through the flight. The flight crew successfully glided the Boeing 767 to an emergency landing at a former Royal Canadian Air Force base in Gimli, Manitoba, which had been converted to a racetrack, Gimli Motorsports Park. It resulted in no serio The incident w... I haven’t found a cite for exactly how long that descent took. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/4 "2013-10-15T17:48:08Z")
[Previous thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=594512) Basically, a jetlines can descend thousands of feet per minute, with some examples of 10,000 fpm. You’d be looking at a few minutes of descent time, depending on where the airport is. ETA: plus they probably need a few minutes to set up the approach, flaps, gear, etc. Again, depending on where the airport is, 10 minutes seems doable, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/5 "2013-10-15T17:51:54Z")
After more googling, it turns out that the Gimli Glider landed 17 minutes after the last engine flamed out. ---
**Author:** ![KCB615](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@KCB615](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KCB615)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/6 "2013-10-15T17:52:18Z")
I took a class several months ago put on by UPS regarding inflight fires. Their research has indicated an average of 17 minutes from the first indication of a fire to the aircraft becoming unflyable. As a result, they are now teaching their pilots to have the plane on the ground within 17 minutes of the first indication of fire (multiple detectors, odor or visible smoke, etc) from any altitude at any airport with a 5000’ or longer paved runway. The instructors talked of being at 270 knots at ten miles out from landing, and causing potential substantial damage to the aircraft (but still on all the wheels and upright when it stops). So for a large frame aircraft, a maximum of 17 minutes from 39,000 feet to stopped on a paved runway. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/7 "2013-10-15T19:01:37Z")
I think we could do it in less than ten minutes in the BAe146. During an emergency descent the vertical speed indicator is pegged at 6000 fpm so it’ll take 4 minutes at the most to get to 10,000 from 35,000 then another 3 minutes to get to 2000 assuming we slow down to 250 knots and achieve 3000 fpm. At 2000 feet we’d be at 7 NM from the runway and it would take another 2-3 minutes to fly the final approach slowing from 250 to 120 knots and getting gear and flap out. In reality we could do it in less time as we don’t normally fly above 30,000. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/8 "2013-10-15T19:14:17Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > After more googling, it turns out that the Gimli Glider landed 17 minutes after the last engine flamed out. Yes, although under the circumstances, quick loss of altitude was not the pilots’ priority (well, until the very last moment when Pearson slipped it.) They probably could have done it faster. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/9 "2013-10-15T19:24:40Z")
When on fire, you never can get down fast enough to suit the pilot & you almost always have too much fuel. Or so I have found. :: shudder ::: ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/10 "2013-10-16T01:15:36Z")
I take it UPS planes catch on fire now and then? ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/11 "2013-10-16T06:25:18Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > I take it UPS planes catch on fire now and then? Not that I know of but they don’t say much about the times there is not a crash. FAA or NTSB might know. Had some electrical fires in small planes and a few twin engine aircraft. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/12 "2013-10-16T09:06:35Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Not that I know of but they don’t say much about the times there is not a crash. FAA or NTSB might know. > > \*\*\* Had some electrical fires in small planes and a few twin engine aircraft.\*\*\* :eek: (bolding mine) I would imagine the ‘pucker factor gauge’ was ‘pegged out’, huh? ☹ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/13 "2013-10-16T09:43:24Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > I take it UPS planes catch on fire now and then? Freighters carry a lot more dangerous goods than passenger aircraft so fire awareness is a lot higher. Perversely, because they don’t carry passengers the rules regarding fire extinguishers are less strict. I fly passenger and cargo models of the BAe146 and the passenger versions have fire extinguishers in the lower cargo holds while the cargo version doesn’t. Nice to know that the lives of us freighter pilots is valued ;). ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/14 "2013-10-16T10:46:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Freighters carry a lot more dangerous goods than passenger aircraft so fire awareness is a lot higher. Perversely, because they don’t carry passengers the rules regarding fire extinguishers are less strict. I fly passenger and cargo models of the BAe146 and the passenger versions have fire extinguishers in the lower cargo holds while the cargo version doesn’t. Nice to know that the lives of us freighter pilots is valued ;). You’re being paid to fly on the plane. The passengers are paying to fly on the plane. So it does affect the bottom line a wee bit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/15 "2013-10-16T10:57:07Z")
Yeah, I understand the logic behind it, doesn’t make you feel any better though. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/16 "2013-10-16T19:45:52Z")
> [@JBDivmstr](#): > > (bolding mine) > > I would imagine the ‘pucker factor gauge’ was ‘pegged out’, huh? ☹ 😉 Pretty much 😃 And I do have rectal muscle problems no more so that most other people. ( TMI ) ??? 😃 I have experienced fright many times, not much fun until I survived. I hate fear more because that takes time & knowledge to develop. When having no more options, you just have to wait & think about what mistakes you have already made & wonder if at the end of the situation you will have an opportunity for a last minute fix or it is really that you are now just along for the ride with an unknown outcome. This is the tough one. So far, so good. I ain’t dead yet. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/17 "2013-10-16T19:47:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Yeah, I understand the logic behind it, doesn’t make you feel any better though. Don’t know about you but there were times I hated that I really loved to fly. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/18 "2013-10-16T19:55:37Z")
I spoke to a friend who flies the B737-700. He said that an emergency descent rate around 10,000 ft/min is possible. Assuming a well-located airport, he guessed the minimum time from cruise altitude to landing was around 5 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![pilot141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@pilot141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pilot141)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/19 "2013-10-16T21:40:19Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > I take it UPS planes catch on fire now and then? [Yes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6). Not a joke, quite tragic. [They survived this one](http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20060208-0). Lithium batteries are bad, bad things to have ignite while airborne. We actually practiced the UPS 747 scenario in the simulator in 2011. At cruise, get a cargo fire warning, put the airplane on the ground as fast as possible. That meant going faster than 250 KIAS below 10,000 feet and not slowing and configuring until the last minute. As previously mentioned once a fire starts onboard you have 17 minutes until the airplane is, according to the stats, going to be unflyable. Our training department said we should shoot for having the airplane on the ground in 11 minutes. That gives you some wiggle room. I think we managed to have the thing on the ground in just under 9 minutes. Those were a busy nine minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327/20 "2013-10-17T05:30:36Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > In 1983, Air Canada flight 143 basically ran out of fuel at 41,000 feet due to math errors trying to convert between gallons and liters. Nitpick: [**pounds/kilograms**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_glider). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emergency-jet-landing-question/671327.md?page=2)