# Emigrating FROM the United States **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158 "2004-02-08T19:13:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/41 "2004-02-10T17:23:16Z")
Hmm … I am a European Immegrant and I live in France for the last 4 years. Beautiful landscape, every range of climate you ever want, very nice people, more important, intelligent people which are interested in politics, evolving society etc; work is not everything in life here; If the autoroutes weren’t so expencive and they were a little more open to vegetarien food than I would stay here forever 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/42 "2004-02-10T17:49:43Z")
For those enthusiastic about running to get Czech Chicks… beware. A friend who lived there said they all look like pornstar Sylvia Saint, gorgeous… until they hit 35-40. Then everything just collapses and they become horrid old women. So taste… but don’t marry. As for women I would love to spend more time in Scandinavia… so many blond and blue eyed beauties. 🙂 Though they do lack more shapely bodies of our brazilian babes. ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/43 "2004-02-10T17:52:04Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yes, your humor was obvious, but I’d like to see the net immigration/emigration between the US and those countries. I’d suspect the US would be the winner. Is there anyone who thinks ontherwise??? Do you want to imply by that that the net immigration/emmigration is an argument about how many people prefer to live in a country vs. another one? Would that mean, that almost nobody wants to live in Monaco because less people immigrate there than the US? Do you mean by that, that a country’s population size (300 Million US against 4 Million Norway), is not a determining factor? Don’t you think that the pop. size also relflects the amounts of foreigners it can absorb and therefore its immigration quotas and politics? How about the fact, that most people immegrate because of economic pressure and expectations and not because of general lifestyle? Mostly, immegrating to another country involves learning a new language, experiencing a culture shock and losing the emotional touch with the culture you are embedded in for at least a couple of years. I live in France for 4 years, I love France, but it’s not my home country and will never replace it. IMHO, people immegrate because they are in economic troubles; Minor reasons (as mine) are personal ties and do not happen very often. Correct me if you think it’s different. But than explain to my why most of the immegrants in the US are mexicains and not Europeans or Japanese and don’t tell me that’s because they are neighbors… Btw, statistics acording to [http://www.nationmaster.com](http://www.nationmaster.com) Foreign population: New Zealand 24.2% Australia 23.6% Switzerland 19.3% Canada 17.4% US 10.4% Austria 9.3% Germany 8.9% France 5.6% Norway 4.1% Net migration rate (both ways???): Afghanistan: 10.7 migrant(s)/1,000 population Monaco: 7.82 migrant(s)/1,000 population Germany: 3.5 migrants / 1000 population US: 3.5 migrants / 1000 population Austria: 2.45 migrant(s)/1,000 population Norway: 2.1 migrants / 1000 population ---
**Author:** ![5cents](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/46a35a/32.png) [@5cents](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5cents)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/44 "2004-02-10T18:07:17Z")
> [@Voodoochile](#): > > Unless some arent aware, the U.S is the only country in the world to tax its overseas citizens There are (were?) a few others, but I can’t name them off the top of my head. Most countries go by where income is earned or “tax resident”, which sounds great except that what you think of as “resident” might not be the same as what your country(ies) of citizenship define as “tax resident”. In many cases, if you maintain a home and a bank account, that’s enough to keep you resident, even if you don’t live in the home. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/45 "2004-02-11T09:22:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Forget the stupid economic indicators. I want to live in the country that measures up to the metrics that are important to me: > -Woman to Men Ratio > -Hot to Ugly Women Ratio > -Cost of Pimp-style Living Indicator > -Length and amount of unemployment benefits > -Number of drinking holidays per year > -Absolute and % coastline as beach/resort > -Number of distinctive beers and alchoholic beverages > -Rich American Worship Index > [@5cents](#): > > My vote: Czech Republic Even better: Brazil There are a lot more women than men, most of them are young (60% of the total population is younger than 30) and extremely hot, the most beautiful beaches in the whole world are in the Northeast of Brazil, the Rich American Worship Index is extremley high, the cost of Pimp-style Living Indicator is extremely low, there is a huge number of great alcoholic beverages (not just Caipirinha). The only slightly negative points are the unemployment benefits, and the quality of the beer (although an ice cold Brahma or Antarctica is great while sitting at the beach), and the relatively high crime rate. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/46 "2004-02-11T13:40:17Z")
Maybe other countries should stop sending their students here for college? Maybe rich Europeans should stop moving here to avoid taxes? Maybe we should stop giving so much aid to countries that will obviously never pay us back. We would probably be a MUCH better country if we eliminate these things. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/47 "2004-02-11T13:57:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > -Woman to Men Ratio > -Hot to Ugly Women Ratio > -Cost of Pimp-style Living Indicator > -Length and amount of unemployment benefits > -Number of drinking holidays per year > -Absolute and % coastline as beach/resort > -Number of distinctive beers and alchoholic beverages > -Rich American Worship Index Thailand. Slam dunk. ---
**Author:** ![5cents](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/46a35a/32.png) [@5cents](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5cents)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/48 "2004-02-11T15:58:04Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > Maybe other countries should stop sending their students here for college? Yeah, we don’t need people who bring $100k (or more) into our country to pay full tuition and living expenses. [http://travel.state.gov/visa;foreignstuden.html](http://travel.state.gov/visa;foreignstuden.html) > [@](#): > > Maybe rich Europeans should stop moving here to avoid taxes? Yeah, lets get rid of rich folks who choose to move here. We don’t need their stinkin taxes on their world-wide income. [http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ar01.html#d0e103](http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ar01.html#d0e103) > [@](#): > > Maybe we should stop giving so much aid to countries that will obviously never pay us back. Yeah, lets ignore natural disaters, suffering, and non-military solutions to problems in third world countries. We’ve got all these nukes, we’ve got to use them for something, right? [http://www.usaid.gov/our\_work/](http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/) > [@](#): > > We would probably be a MUCH better country if we eliminate these things. Yeah, lets get rid of all them furiners, and make America for 'merikans. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/49 "2004-02-11T22:18:37Z")
> [@5cents](#): > > Yeah, lets get rid of all them furiners, and make America for 'merikans. > > :rolleyes: Original post meant to be sarcastic. I forgot the :rolleyes: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![5cents](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/46a35a/32.png) [@5cents](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5cents)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/50 "2004-02-12T04:43:53Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > Original post meant to be sarcastic. > > I forgot the :rolleyes: > > 🙂 Damn, I got whooshed big time. Oh well… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/51 "2004-02-12T05:02:58Z")
> [@5cents](#): > > Damn, I got whooshed big time. Oh well… 🙂 All is not lost, you found some dandy sites there. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/52 "2004-02-12T11:20:02Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Yes, your humor was obvious, but I’d like to see the net immigration/emigration between the US and those countries. I’d suspect the US would be the winner. Is there anyone who thinks ontherwise??? Bit of a skewed statistic, wouldn’t you say? First of all, in my experience, most people who move between the two countries are doing so temporarily. They work or study abroad for a few years, but intend to move back home. Of course, some people like it so much they choose to stay, but most people don’t like it enough to deal with the hassle involved in getting permission to do that. So, if a Norwegian is looking at studying or working abroad, he knows that he already speaks some English (after a minimum of nine years of it at school) and has a fair chance of picking up enough to get by if he moves to an English-speaking country. He has also seen American television programs and movies all his life, and feels - probably incorrectly, of course - that he knows a bit about the culture. And in a country with 300 million people, chances are reasonable that he can find a job or a place to study if he’s talented and really determined to do so. It’s fairly easy and natural for him to choose to go to the US for his adventure abroad. Now let’s look at a young American who’d like to travel abroad. He doesn’t speak Norwegian, that’s for sure. More Americans have been struck by lightning than speak any Scandinavian language. If he speaks a foreign language, chances are very good it’s French or Spanish. He has never seen a Scandinavian television program, and unless he’s a real movie buff he hasn’t seen a Scandinavian film, either. He doesn’t know much or think he knows much about Norway or its neighbors. And in a country with only 4 million people, it would take a bit of luck as well as talent and determination to find a job or a place to study. It’s difficult for him to choose Norway as the place for his adventure abroad, and he’s unlikely to do so anyway. He’s much more likely to choose Britain or another English-speaking country (where the language is at least vaguely familiar), or a large country he’s at least heard a lot about. In other words, of course more Norwegians move to the US (temporarily or permanently) than the other way around - but this tells us approximately nothing of value for this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/53 "2004-02-12T11:37:32Z")
This is from the US census: [http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0063.html](http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0063.html) > [@](#): > > **Evaluating Components of International Migration: Native-Born Emigrants** > > Emigration from the United States is one of the most difficult components of migration to measure. There are only minimal identification checks for those leaving the United States, and there is no system - official or unofficial - to identify residents of the United States who emigrate. > > …Still, in the absence of any more detailed analysis, his figure of **48,000 U.S. born emigrants annually** was used for the 1990-2000 intercensal decade. There is also a table breaking it down by selected countries. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/54 "2004-02-12T14:41:35Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > Btw, there is a study which takes into account the average height of the people of a nation, since there is a correlation between the wealth of a nation and the height of its people. Advantage: A rich guy cannot “out-grow” several poor ones, as he does in the income statistics. Guess who are the tallest? The Dutch. Guess who is shrinking? The US population Might that have something to do with immigration (both legal and illegal) from poorer countries? Ain’t saying we ain’t go no poverty, but you shouldn’t place too much reliance on any one statistic, or for that matter on any one source of information. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/55 "2004-02-12T23:38:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Now let’s look at a young American who’d like to travel abroad. He doesn’t speak Norwegian, that’s for sure. More Americans have been struck by lightning than speak any Scandinavian language. [hijack]I speak good Danish. I once heard some guys speaking it at an Oakland A’s game, and turned around to talk to them. They complained that they couldn’t go anyplace without meeting somebody who understood what they were saying, and seemed slightly irked that they couldn’t have a secret language for their trip as they had expected…[/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Voodoochile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/898d66/32.png) [@Voodoochile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voodoochile)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/56 "2004-02-13T15:18:34Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > [hijack]I speak good Danish. I once heard some guys speaking it at an Oakland A’s game, and turned around to talk to them. They complained that they couldn’t go anyplace without meeting somebody who understood what they were saying, and seemed slightly irked that they couldn’t have a secret language for their trip as they had expected…[/hijack] Thats sounds familiar; my brother in law and his cousin were here from Sweden; they were in some liquer store and couldnt understand the asian guys accent behind the counter. Being dweebs in their early twenties, they started cussing/making fun of him in Swedish, thinking no one would know what the hell they were saying, when the guy behind them in line said in perfect Swedish ‘Shut up, leave the man alone and tell him what you want. His english isnt good but niether is yours’. Man, seeing their faces, I havent laughed that hard in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/57 "2004-02-13T17:37:30Z")
Hee hee! I knew a girl once who lived for several years in Saudi Arabia and spoke great Arabic. She was a tour guide in the Midwest, and ran into a bunch of guys speaking Arabic, making rude comments about everyone around them, secure in the knowledge that no one could understand them. She chewed them out, asking them what their mothers would think of them. I wish I could have seen their faces… Moral: never underestimate the language skills of anyone. You never know where they’ve lived. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/58 "2004-02-13T20:33:11Z")
One more story (sorry about continuing the hijack). My brother is fluent in French and studied for several years in France and Belgium. The summer before he started law school, he did some landscaping and general home repairs. He did a lot of stuff in Georgetown (Washington, D.C.), in those huge old brownstones (I guess that’s what they’re considered)…very wealthy people. He was out digging in the dirt one day when the owners of the house + some of their friends walked up, speaking French. One of the guests made some rude comment in reference to my brother (he was in the way or had made a mess or something). He greeted them all and asked the owner a question about his work in French. He said the looks on their faces were priceless. Not only should people not underestimate the language skills of others, they shouldn’t assume the “help” is uneducated or stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158/59 "2004-02-14T23:50:47Z")
US Born person speaking out. My wife and I just returned from a trip to BC Canada. I must say the people across the board were some of the nicest I’ve met. Everywhere we went people were pleasent and greeting. It was a nice change from the general population in the West Coast of the US (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, ect). After a couple of days there we started talking about looking into moving up to Vancouver or Victoria. I have family in Vancouver, so that might help our move. My wife is a nurse, I’m a computer geek type and my daughter is a straight A middle school student. We shouldn’t be too much of a burden on their system. heh heh. The reason I’d want to move are simple. I’m pretty sick of the general American “I’m always right” attitude. I’ve been told many times “if you don’t like it here why don’t you just move to another country”. In the last three years I’ve really been bombarded by pro-american drivel like that. Here’s the thing,. I’ve always paid my taxes WITHOUT complaint, I’ve stayed out of trouble with the law (minus 3 minor driving infractions), I’ve stayed employed except a few months here and there between jobs, and I try to be a good stand up citizen. Personally I’m sick and tired of being treated like an unwanted burden on the US because I’ve got ideas beyond bombing the crap out of countries. I’m tired of being told to move out of the country because I do not agree with shock and awe campains. I always thought the “American” thing to do was vote your mind and make a change to the system you do not like. Sadly, that isn’t the case. It seems the majority of Americans vote more on their pocketbook and less on what’s good for the country. The 80’s in the USA were the “me” generation. The 2000’s are the “mine” generation. Sort of a “I’ve got mine, who gives a crap about you”. I’m also concerned about the so called anti-terrorist movements going on in the USA. I’m afraid in a few years we might have to carry “papers” and go through random checkpoints all in the name of Homeland security. I don’t know. I get get a really bad feeling on the direction the USA is headed. So, chalk me and my family up with those looking into moving **out** of the USA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emigrating-from-the-united-states/228158.md?page=2)