# Empire State Building question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2019, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203 "2019-06-28T06:24:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/1 "2019-06-28T06:24:06Z")
This photo claims to be taken in 1941. Has it been altered or doctored in any way? I don’t necessarily think it has been but it seems strange that it’s almost one lone tall building with no other skyscrapers around. I guess I just always assumed there was a natural progression of taller and taller buildings til someone said, fuck it, I’m building the tallest one. Link-o-Rama: [https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelryerson/43204634412](https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelryerson/43204634412) ETA: I had not read the comments when I posted this. Still I’ll ask… ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/2 "2019-06-28T06:55:59Z")
The Empire State Building still stands out: > **[Empire State Building](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building)** > > The Empire State Building is a 102-story\[c\] Art Deco skyscraper in Midtown Manhattan, New York City. The building was designed by Shreve, Lamb & Harmon and built from 1930 to 1931. Its name is derived from "Empire State", the nickname of the state of New York. The building has a roof height of 1,250 feet (380 m) and stands a total of 1,454 feet (443.2 m) tall, including its antenna. The Empire State Building was the world's tallest building until the first tower of the World Trade Center was... The Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building are the only buildings in New York which were ever the tallest buildings in the world: > **[List of tallest buildings and structures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures)** > > The world's tallest human-made structure is the 828-metre-tall (2,717 ft) Burj Khalifa in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. The building gained the official title of "tallest building in the world" and the tallest self-supported structure at its opening on January 9, 2010. Burj Khalifa was developed by Emaar properties, designed by Skidmore, Owings and Merrill and built by BESIX, Samsung Construction and Arabtec. The second-tallest self-supporting structure and the tallest tower in the world is th... Here’s some information about the tallest buildings in New York: > **[List of tallest buildings in New York City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_New_York_City)** > > New York City, the most populous city in the United States, is home to over 7,000 completed high-rise buildings of at least 115 feet (35 m), of which at least 101 are taller than 650 feet (198 m). The tallest building in New York is One World Trade Center, which rises 1,776 feet (541 m). The 104-story\[A\] skyscraper also stands as the tallest building in the United States, the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere, and the seventh-tallest building in the world. At 1,550 feet At 1,250 feet... ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/3 "2019-06-28T09:18:17Z")
I don’t think it has been altered, but the picture in the OP is a bit deceiving since it was taken at a distance with a hill in between. You’re missing about a quarter of the bottom of the building and you are missing all of the surrounding buildings. The Empire State Building was significantly taller than its neighbors back then. You can compare it with the pictures on this page: > **[Archivist update: Empire State Building turns 85 — AP Photos](https://apimagesblog.com/blog/2016/04/29/empire-state-building-turns-85)** > > On May 1, 2016, the Empire State Building marks 85 years since it officially opened on May 1, 1931, with the press of a button by President Herbert Hoover in Washington, D.C to turn on the lights. At the time that the building opened, it was the... ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/4 "2019-06-28T10:52:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building are the only buildings in New York which were ever the tallest buildings in the world: No. The World Trade Center was tallest when it was completed in 1972, until 1974 when the Chicago Sears Tower (Willis Tower) was completed. > [@](#): > > At the time of their completion, the Twin Towers — the original 1 World Trade Center, at 1,368 feet (417 m); and 2 World Trade Center, at 1,362 feet (415.1 m)—were the tallest buildings in the world. [World Trade Center (1973–2001) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_(1973%E2%80%932001)) Even your linked-to page states, > [@](#): > > … until it was surpassed by the Empire State Building’s 1,250 feet (380 meters) in 1931. That was in turn surpassed by the 1,368-foot-high (417 m) twin towers of New York’s original World Trade Center in 1972, which were in turn surpassed by the Sears Tower in Chicago in 1974. [List of tallest buildings and structures - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/5 "2019-06-28T11:45:37Z")
This part of the article says that the Empire State Building was the tallest structure from 1931 to 1967, when it was passed by the Ostankino Tower in Moscow, which was the tallest structure until 1975, when it was passed by the CN Tower in Toronto, which was the tallest structure until 2007, when it was passed by the Burj Khalifa in Dubai: > **[List of tallest buildings and structures | History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures#History)** > > The following is a list of structures that have held the title as the tallest freestanding structure on land. It’s not clear what’s a building and what’s just a structure. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/6 "2019-06-28T11:58:22Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building are the only buildings in New York which were ever the tallest buildings in the world: > [@Bullitt](#): > > No. The World Trade Center was tallest when it was completed in 1972, until 1974 when the Chicago Sears Tower (Willis Tower) was completed. Both of these statements are correct. Wendell’s statement refers to the present, and the WTC no longer exists. If it had said, “were the only buildings in New York”, it would have been incorrect. ETA: what Wendell said. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/7 "2019-06-28T12:12:58Z")
The photo was taken not long before it was struck by a  B-25 Mitchell bomber. > **[1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Empire_State_Building_B-25_crash)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}40°44′54″N 73°59′08″W / 40.74833°N 73.98556°W / 40.74833; -73.98556 (A Building) > On July 28, 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber of the United States Army Air Forces crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building in New Yo... ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/8 "2019-06-28T12:22:25Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > This part of the article says that the Empire State Building was the tallest structure from 1931 to 1967, when it was passed by the Ostankino Tower in Moscow, which was the tallest structure until 1975, when it was passed by the CN Tower in Toronto, which was the tallest structure until 2007, when it was passed by the Burj Khalifa in Dubai: > > [List of tallest buildings and structures - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures#History) > > It’s not clear what’s a building and what’s just a structure. Gotcha, and thanks. I was a kid growing up in Upstate New York and on the news I distinctly remember them saying the WTC is now the tallest building in the world, having surpassed the Empire State Building. But did they say building? Or structure? I don’t recall. So yeah, _ **building** _, versus _ **structure** _. And who knows how those are defined. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/9 "2019-06-28T12:49:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The Empire State Building still stands out: > > [Empire State Building - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building) > > The Empire State Building and the Chrysler Building are the only buildings in New York which were ever the tallest buildings in the world: > > [List of tallest buildings and structures - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_and_structures) > > Here’s some information about the tallest buildings in New York: > > [List of tallest buildings in New York City - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_New_York_City) The Woolworth Building was the tallest building in the world when it was erected in 1913, according to a different entry in Wikipedia. It was in New York City at 233 Broadway > **[Woolworth Building](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woolworth_Building)** > > The Woolworth Building is a residential building and early skyscraper at 233 Broadway in the Tribeca neighborhood of Lower Manhattan in New York City, United States. Designed by Cass Gilbert, it was the tallest building in the world from 1913 to 1930, with a height of 792 feet (241 m). More than a century after its construction, it remains one of the 100 tallest buildings in the U.S.. > The Woolworth Building is bounded by Broadway and City Hall Park to its east, Park Place to its north, and B... Your “list of tallest buildings” has the Eiffel Tower holding the record at that time, and at 986 feet it exceeded the height of the Woolworth at 792 feet, but there’s that whole argument about “building” vs. “structure”. Myself, I’d class the Eiffel tower along with things like giant antennae as a “structure” and call the Woolworth a “Building”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/10 "2019-06-28T13:18:15Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > So yeah, _ **building** _, versus _ **structure** _. And who knows how those are defined. [Here you go](http://www.ctbuh.org/criteria/#BU) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/11 "2019-06-28T16:28:02Z")
Another term that makes “tallest” harder to pin down is “free standing”. So that rules out a lot of antennas, for example. The CN Tower people liked to mention the “free standing” bit. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/12 "2019-06-28T16:44:24Z")
[Here’s an aerial view](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/c3/b3/44c3b3d2386aaf16e7b8d72e84dd0858.jpg) of Manhattan, reportedly from 1938, with the Empire State Building visible in the distance. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/13 "2019-06-28T16:44:25Z")
At the time, most of New York’s skyscrapers were in the Wall St. area at the southern tip of Manhattan or in the newer favored area around Times Square. The Empire State was at 34th St., not a prime office building spot. It was chosen partly to replace the Waldorf-Astoria hotel and partly because it would stand out from the surrounding lower buildings. Here’s a shot that gives a [better view of the neighborhood](https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/construction-empire-state-building-gallery-1.2616807). Those “small” towers would make a good downtown in almost any other city in 1931. There wasn’t any good reason then, or even before the Depression, to build thousand-foot office buildings. They weren’t needed and gave poor returns on their investment. The Depression made it worse. The Empire State was nicknamed the “Empty State Building” because it was mostly empty for a decade. Those other buildings were built at the proper heights for investment. Anything else was purely for showing off. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/14 "2019-06-28T17:49:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > At the time, most of New York’s skyscrapers were in the Wall St. area at the southern tip of Manhattan or in the newer favored area around Times Square. > > The Empire State was at 34th St., not a prime office building spot. It was chosen partly to replace the Waldorf-Astoria hotel and partly because it would stand out from the surrounding lower buildings. > > Here’s a shot that gives a [better view of the neighborhood](https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/construction-empire-state-building-gallery-1.2616807). Those “small” towers would make a good downtown in almost any other city in 1931. > > There wasn’t any good reason then, or even before the Depression, to build thousand-foot office buildings. They weren’t needed and gave poor returns on their investment. The Depression made it worse. The Empire State was nicknamed the “Empty State Building” because it was mostly empty for a decade. Those other buildings were built at the proper heights for investment. Anything else was purely for showing off. the Empire State Building was definitely a case of Showing Off. It was originally not intended to have that big spire on the top. But then the Chrysler Building started going up, and would have been taller than the Empire State Building as planned. So they redesigned the top so that _they’d_ be taller. I like that they originally said that the top would be used as a mooring mast for zeppelins. the mind boggles at trying to not only moor to that tiny fixed point amid the contrary winds and updrafts of midtown Manhattan, but also of people trying to walk down any sort of ramp, no matter how protected, under the same circumstances. One of the things I love about the movie _Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow_ is that it actually depicts (using CGI, of course) people “de-zeppelining” from one as it’s moored at the top of the Empire State Building > **[Hindenburg III](https://skycaptainsarmyforhire.fandom.com/wiki/Hindenburg_III)** > > The Hindenburg III was a commercial passenger-carrying rigid airship featured prominently in the film's opening. The Hindenburg III completed its maiden voyage to New York on 7th October 1939. Among the passengers of the Hindenburg III was Dr. Jorge... [https://gawker.com/5004308/a-zeppelin-never-docked-on-the-empire-state-building](https://gawker.com/5004308/a-zeppelin-never-docked-on-the-empire-state-building) They later put aerials up there, of course, which was not only a more reasonable use of that real estate, but also added more to the overall height. When I was a kid I took the bus into New York via the Lincoln Tunnel. Your actual view of the city is blocked by big rocky cliffs until just before you spiral down into the Tunnel, but on your approach the rock suddenly drops away and you are treated to an unobstructed close-up view of Manhattan on the other side of the Hudson, and it’s breathtaking. You could see all the tall buildings down at the Battery, near Wall Street, then a long drought of tall buildings as you moved north through Manhattan, and then suddenly the Empire State Building, the Chrysler, and the other buildings of Midtown. There are more buildings there today than when I was a kid, and the ESB is no longer as much of a standout as it was then, but it still stands tallest among the buildings in Midtown Manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/15 "2019-06-28T17:53:55Z")
Evidently a dirigible DID dock there once, briefly. But nobody got on or off: [http://www.charlesfake.com/2014/09/16/airport\_in\_the\_sky/](http://www.charlesfake.com/2014/09/16/airport_in_the_sky/) > [@](#): > > September 16, 2014 (Tuesday) > > On this date in 1931 a dirigible docked atop the new Empire State Building for three minutes. That was the only time that ever happened. But promises had been made that dirigibles would make regular stops at that location, and passengers would disembark on a gangplank a quarter mile above the streets of New York. For a number of reasons, that promise went unfulfilled and faded into the world of dreams long since past. It turns out that docking a giant blimp to a building over 1,000 feet tall is nearly impossible; the winds at that height are too strong. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/16 "2019-06-28T18:03:12Z")
Empire State Building before they added the spire: [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=680&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7lUWXZSjG-W0ggfQhLbgBw&q="Empire+State+Building"+"without+spire"&oq="Empire+State+Building"+"without+spire"&gs\_l=img.3...9422.11888..12120...0.0..0.75.144.2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.y4FFuLCLV9w#imgrc=fWFYgMz1kQZ5EM:&spf=1561744891515](https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=680&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7lUWXZSjG-W0ggfQhLbgBw&q=%22Empire+State+Building%22+%22without+spire%22&oq=%22Empire+State+Building%22+%22without+spire%22&gs_l=img.3...9422.11888..12120...0.0..0.75.144.2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.y4FFuLCLV9w#imgrc=fWFYgMz1kQZ5EM:&spf=1561744891515) [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=680&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7lUWXZSjG-W0ggfQhLbgBw&q="Empire+State+Building"+"without+spire"&oq="Empire+State+Building"+"without+spire"&gs\_l=img.3...9422.11888..12120...0.0..0.75.144.2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.y4FFuLCLV9w#imgrc=Qhcu6wOQBeNrjM:&spf=1561744891518](https://www.google.com/search?biw=1440&bih=680&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7lUWXZSjG-W0ggfQhLbgBw&q=%22Empire+State+Building%22+%22without+spire%22&oq=%22Empire+State+Building%22+%22without+spire%22&gs_l=img.3...9422.11888..12120...0.0..0.75.144.2......0....1..gws-wiz-img.y4FFuLCLV9w#imgrc=Qhcu6wOQBeNrjM:&spf=1561744891518) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/17 "2019-06-28T18:42:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > You could see all the tall buildings down at the Battery, near Wall Street, then a long drought of tall buildings as you moved north through Manhattan, and then suddenly the Empire State Building, the Chrysler, and the other buildings of Midtown. It’s interesting how the geography of tall buildings in Manhattan reveals the underlying geology of the island. The bedrock in Lower Manhattan and Midtown is closer to the surface and thus more suitable for skyscraper construction. That gap represents an area where the bedrock is deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/18 "2019-06-28T20:12:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > the Empire State Building was definitely a case of Showing Off. It was originally not intended to have that big spire on the top. But then the Chrysler Building started going up, and would have been taller than the Empire State Building as planned. So they redesigned the top so that _they’d_ be taller. The Chrysler Building did it first. The now-famous spire was added at the last minute to be taller than 40 Wall St. > [@](#): > > The same year that the Chrysler Building’s construction started, banker George L. Ohrstrom proposed the construction of a 47-story office building at 40 Wall Street downtown. Shortly thereafter Ohrstrom modified his project to have 60 floors, but it was still below Woolworth and the 808-foot Chrysler Building project as announced in 1928.[57] H. Craig Severance, Van Alen’s former partner and the architect of 40 Wall Street, increased 40 Wall’s height to 840 feet (260 m) with 62 floors in April of that year. It would thus exceed the Woolworth’s height by 48 feet (15 m) and the Chrysler’s by 32 feet (9.8 m).[57] 40 Wall Street and the Chrysler Building started competing for the distinction of “world’s tallest building”.[69][70] The Empire State Building, on 34th Street and Fifth Avenue, entered the competition in 1929. The “Race into the Sky”, as popular media called it at the time, was representative of the country’s optimism in the 1920s, which helped fuel the building boom in major cities.[71] The 40 Wall Street tower was revised from 840 feet (260 m) to 925 feet in April 1929, which would make it the world’s tallest.[72] Severance increased the height of his project and then publicly claimed the title of the world’s tallest building.[73] Construction of 40 Wall Street began in May 1929 at a frantic pace, and it was completed twelve months later.[57] > > In response, Van Alen obtained permission for a 125-foot-long (38 m) spire[74][75] and had it secretly constructed inside the frame of his building.[72] The spire was delivered to the site in four different sections.[74] On October 23, 1929, one week after surpassing the Woolworth Building’s height and one day before the catastrophic Wall Street Crash of 1929 started, the spire was assembled. According to one account, “the bottom section of the spire was hoisted to the top of the building’s dome and lowered into the 66th floor of the building.”[57] Then, within 90 minutes the rest of the spire’s pieces were raised and riveted in sequence,[76] helping raise the tower’s height to 1,046 feet.[77][78] Van Alen, who witnessed the process from the street along with its engineers and Walter Chrysler,[77] compared the experience to watching a butterfly leaving its cocoon.[78] What the Empire State Building did was add five stories to the building proper to raise its height, along with the mooring mast (not a spire). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/19 "2019-06-28T22:51:43Z")
> [@](#): > > What the Empire State Building did was add five stories to the building proper to raise its height, along with the mooring mast (not a spire). Thatg spire is a lot more than the mooring mast. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203/20 "2019-06-28T23:52:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > the Empire State Building was definitely a case of Showing Off. It was originally not intended to have that big spire on the top. But then the Chrysler Building started going up, and would have been taller than the Empire State Building as planned. So they redesigned the top so that _they’d_ be taller. > > I like that they originally said that the top would be used as a mooring mast for zeppelins. the mind boggles at trying to not only moor to that tiny fixed point amid the contrary winds and updrafts of midtown Manhattan Without many other tall buildings around it when it was built, you wouldn’t get nearly the amount of updrafts that you would in today’s higher city. Also, while winds aloft are typically higher than at ground level; they were virtually the same at 1000’ earlier today as they were at ground level at the three major commercial airports serving the NY metro area, EWR, JFK, & LGA; all below 10mph. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > When I was a kid I took the bus into New York via the Lincoln Tunnel. Your actual view of the city is blocked by big rocky cliffs until just before you spiral down into the Tunnel, but on your approach the rock suddenly drops away and you are treated to an unobstructed close-up view of Manhattan on the other side of the Hudson, and it’s breathtaking. You could see all the tall buildings down at the Battery, near Wall Street, then a long drought of tall buildings as you moved north through Manhattan, and then suddenly the Empire State Building, the Chrysler, and the other buildings of Midtown. There are more buildings there today than when I was a kid, and the ESB is no longer as much of a standout as it was then, but it still stands tallest among the buildings in Midtown Manhattan. That view is gone. Hudson Yards not only blocks the view of the ESB but 30 HY has both higher occupied & architectural heights. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-state-building-question/836203.md?page=2)