# Empire Strikes Back, why did everyone assume Obiwan lied? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 20, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279 "2014-01-20T15:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/81 "2014-01-24T02:35:19Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Near the beginning of “The Empire Strikes back”, Vader takes a video call from the Emperor: The call right after ANH went [more like this -](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F1d3QWsyk0) ---
**Author:** ![amorali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3e96dc/32.png) [@amorali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amorali)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/82 "2014-01-24T03:22:55Z")
But there must have been a canteen in the Death Star… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Sv5iEK-IEzw/hqdefault.jpg "Suzy Eddie Izzard- Death Star Canteen") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/83 "2014-01-24T04:25:55Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Land on the planet (Leia must have known he was hiding there, since that’s where her ship was heading when it was attacked) and hope for the proverbial “lucky break.” :rolleyes: I had the impression (perhaps from the dialogue between Leia and Vader - I’d need to go back and watch) that the ship was on its way to Alderaan. Leia meant to personally deliver the Death Star plans (nothing suspicious about a senator returning to her home planet, after all), but Vader’s Star Destroyer put an end to that idea. Loading the plans into R2-D2 and recording her message was the spur-of-the-moment, emergency “Plan B”. I’ve always thought it was a strong probability that the Force influenced the exact location in space where Leia’s ship would be disabled. Because the Force “knew” that it was time to “awaken” Luke. > [@terentii](#): > > Well, of course; he’s just spied a cute, friendly little droid. I’d have the same reaction if I found a stray puppy or kitten. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: yourself. I was speaking in the “meta”, cinematic sense. Of course he was looking at R2-D2, “in character”. But how many other characters in the movie were introduced via closeup face-shot, looking directly into the camera? Of course, this didn’t occur to me when I saw the movie in the theater in 1977, but I was 11 years old and had never heard of Alex Guinness. But my parents damn sure had. And given that my parents honestly had no interest in seeing this movie (it took weeks of me begging before they finally caved and took me), I’m pretty sure that Sir Alec’s introduction onscreen may have been enough to make them at least think, “Well, this might not be so bad”. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/84 "2014-01-24T08:37:02Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I had the impression (perhaps from the dialogue between Leia and Vader - I’d need to go back and watch) that the ship was on its way to Alderaan. Leia meant to personally deliver the Death Star plans (nothing suspicious about a senator returning to her home planet, after all), but Vader’s Star Destroyer put an end to that idea. Loading the plans into R2-D2 and recording her message was the spur-of-the-moment, emergency “Plan B”. > > I’ve always thought it was a strong probability that the Force influenced the exact location in space where Leia’s ship would be disabled. Because the Force “knew” that it was time to “awaken” Luke. She was indeed headed to Alderaan until Vader attacked her ship. Then, I would assume, she knew the only way to get the message to her “father” on Alderaan was to get it to Obi-Wan—who, amazingly, just happened to be close enough on Tatooine for her to make it there before she was boarded. A remarkable lucky coincidence, or The Force at work? Interesting question. I’m surprised Lucas (so far as I know) never addressed it. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/85 "2014-01-24T08:40:22Z")
:rolleyes: , BTW, is my look of innocence in the above context. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/86 "2014-01-24T16:35:19Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I assumed Leia was speaking of her step-mother. I don’t know what Leia called her, but I bet it was “Mom” or the equivalent. Leia never mentioned any other Organa siblings, and if “mom” was sad maybe it was because she couldn’t bear children from her own body. Or maybe Senator Organa was dead by then and she remembers her mother as a greiving widow. Except when Luke asks her the question, he asks about her real mom. Specifically. Then she says something about “just images, really”. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > The meta reason is that it was at the end of the movie. A surpring revelation at the beginning of a movie or in the middle might turn out to be false (and thus drive the story in interesting ways), but a revelation at the end of a movie will be expected to be true by the audience. But that revelation was not “I am Annakin Skywalker”, it was “_I_ am your father.” Technically, he never said his name was Skywalker. I think the previous lines by the Emperor about Luke being the son of Skywalker helped create the idea that when Vader says he’s Luke’s father, he’s also saying he was Skywalker. > [@AK84](#): > > As it is, the real question should be, when/how did Vader find out that he was Darth Daddy/Deadbeat. He clearly knew sometime before the events of ESB. He first encounters Luke in Star Wars in the trench, sensing the force. He has how ever many years between then and Hoth to have learned the name of the Hero of the Rebellion. > [@terentii](#): > > :rolleyes: , BTW, is my look of innocence in the above context. Sorry, that icon is a sign if dismissal. You can’t redefine the meaning of an emoticon to your own personal definition and expect people to understand. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/87 "2014-01-25T02:48:26Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Sorry, that icon is a sign if dismissal. You can’t redefine the meaning of an emoticon to your own personal definition and expect people to understand. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/88 "2014-01-25T03:19:10Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > :rolleyes: , BTW, is my look of innocence in the above context. Jesus, is THAT what you think that smiley means? No wonder I can’t figure out what you’re trying to say in half your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/89 "2014-01-26T20:50:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [Darth Nefarious](http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/01/25). Heh. There’s a fine line, in popular culture, between “accessible” and “skull-thumpingly obvious.” > [@Chronos](#): > > Am I the only one who reads **Sherrerd** ’s list and thinks those guys all belong in the twenty-fourth-and-a-half century? Or perhaps in a Warner Bros. cartoon: _“You’re Darth Picable!!!”_ 🆒 eta: Yikes! That was what you meant! (I must have seen Duck Dodgers at some point, but didn’t make the connection. :() ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279/90 "2014-01-26T21:06:05Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > One thing about Ep 4 that bothered me: Owen says that Ben died around the same time as Luke’s father. To which Luke blurts out “he knew my father?” > > No, dumbass. Lots of people died every day. They don’t all know each other. I know Luke’s sheltered and naive, but it bothered me the way he jumped to that conclusion. I figured that since Owen doesn’t talk about Luke’s father much at all, and Luke is desperate to learn more about him, Luke is rather desperately taking Owen’s offhand reference as an opportunity to worm some more information out of him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/empire-strikes-back-why-did-everyone-assume-obiwan-lied/679279.md?page=4)