# Employee up for a promotion reveals disturbing secret while drunk. What do you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289 "2010-09-19T15:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/101 "2010-09-21T00:41:43Z")
That depends. Is Katina a Jew or nigger? If so, she should fire that bitch! If not, are any of the other employees Jews or niggers? Fire that bitch! Generally, I think you should fire that bitch! But yeah, basically, a person who says that she would fire the minorities she works with if she could should most definitely not be put in a supervisory position above said minorities. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/102 "2010-09-21T00:42:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People are not that complicated, and you can be sure that alcohol reveals what they really are. It lowers inhibitions, it does not implant feelings and opinions that they don’t really have. Talk about blanket statements lol. So why aren’t we using alcohol to interrogate suspected terrorists, given it’s all powerful panacea as a truth serum? Alcohol loosens inhibitions. Which means things someone might have cross their mind they just go ahead and say without thinking about it. Just because something pops into your head doesn’t mean it some essential part of your identity. The subconscious floats all sorts of crap up to the surface to see what passes muster, and then the conscious mind dismisses the things it doesn’t agree with. If you disable this filter, all sorts of things could come out of your mouth that aren’t what you really feel, they are just base crap spilling out of the id. Think of the small kid, told they can’t have candy by their Mom. Not a fully mature being, they might get super pissed, and yell “I hate your guts! I wish you would die!”. Then 20 minutes later they’ve completely forgotten about it. Do you feel the need to post a security guard around the Mom now? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/103 "2010-09-21T00:59:40Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > People are not that complicated, and you can be sure that alcohol reveals what they really are. It lowers inhibitions, it does not implant feelings and opinions that they don’t really have. > > How very Christian of you. I’m sorry, what? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/104 "2010-09-21T01:05:31Z")
“I hate niggers” is only said if it’s an essential part of your identity. It seems to me a lot of people think it would be some kind admirable, pious show of tolerance and maturity not to shitcan somebody like this, but it wouldn’t be. It would just be unprofessional and irresponsible, not to mention an insult to any black employees. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/105 "2010-09-21T01:37:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Skammer](#): > > > > Her racist statements are abhorrent, but there is every indication that they have no affect on her job performance. > > This is a convenient part of **Skald’s** hypothetical, but it is not actually believable to me as a realistic scenario. This is where I would have to agree with DtC (is there a tear in the space time continum?)… I also don’t believe that someone with such a repugnant attitude could keep it a secret so either 1. The statements were some form of joke, trick or ramblings of a drunk mind and should not be held against anyone 2. A closer look needs to be taken at past interactions and job performance ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/106 "2010-09-21T02:28:31Z")
People like Anne have no business being in charge of anything. It doesn’t surprise me that this is the South where people get away with talking like this with a wink and nudge “don’t make it obvious” from the boss. Fuck that! This shit has no place in a first world country. ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/107 "2010-09-21T02:37:35Z")
So I rant more: Pass her up for the promotion, tell her why, and treat her like a second class citizen until she quits in shame. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/108 "2010-09-21T03:18:18Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > An employee who gets drunk at what for all intents and purposes is a company event and makes a bunch of wildly racists statements? Oh that sounds highly promotable. > > Sorry, but I’m less inclined to let it slide. I want people in leadership positions who show actual leadership. Not someone who is going to act like a drunken sorority girl. If she’s a good salesperson let her stick to sales. If it’s a company meeting, liquor should not be served. If liquor is served, it is best not to put a company event label on it. May as well have an orgy and call it a company event, if you’re going to have liquor served. Additionally, since when are the thoughts of an employee a reason to hinder a promotion? If a black person with impeccable bona fides gets drunk and rants about the white oppressor for the last 400 yrs or more, are we to hinder him, or attribute it to the alcohol? We may not like what people think, but, it is wrong to force it into a work context. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/109 "2010-09-21T03:21:02Z")
> [@dukette71](#): > > It doesn’t surprise me that this is the South where people get away with talking like this with a wink and nudge “don’t make it obvious” from the boss. It shouldn’t surprise you one bit that it’s in the South…it’s a hypothetical situation! It can happen on Mars, and it shouldn’t surprise you. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/110 "2010-09-21T03:23:49Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > An employee who gets drunk at what for all intents and purposes is a company event and makes a bunch of wildly racists statements? Oh that sounds highly promotable. > > > > Sorry, but I’m less inclined to let it slide. I want people in leadership positions who show actual leadership. Not someone who is going to act like a drunken sorority girl. If she’s a good salesperson let her stick to sales. > > If it’s a company meeting, liquor should not be served. If liquor is served, it is best not to put a company event label on it. May as well have an orgy and call it a company event, if you’re going to have liquor served. > Additionally, since when are the thoughts of an employee a reason to hinder a promotion? If a black person with impeccable bona fides gets drunk and rants about the white oppressor for the last 400 yrs or more, are we to hinder him, or attribute it to the alcohol? We may not like what people think, but, it is wrong to force it into a work context. > Best wishes, > hh We’re talking about words, actions and expressed wishes to do illegal things at work, not about thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/111 "2010-09-21T03:30:21Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > > [@dukette71](#): > > > > It doesn’t surprise me that this is the South where people get away with talking like this with a wink and nudge “don’t make it obvious” from the boss. > > It shouldn’t surprise you one bit that it’s in the South…it’s a hypothetical situation! It can happen on Mars, and it shouldn’t surprise you. > > Best wishes, > hh Hypothetical (for the book the OP is writing?)- it reminded me of when I lived there. This shit happens all the time, and it’s from your normal acting neighbor, co-worker, friends parents. They know it is distasteful to some, but they don’t know why, so they just keep it to themselves until they think you are on the level. Of course, no one calls them on it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/112 "2010-09-21T06:24:16Z")
Alcohol is nature’s truth serum. She has a personal problem with the potential to do great harm to the company. Daddy needs to know the situation and Anne needs to see a councilor regarding her remarks. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/113 "2010-09-21T06:54:52Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@brickbacon](#): > > > > I’m sorry, but I don’t even begin to understand how anyone could feel she should keep her job, let alone get a promotion. > > Because SHE HASN’T DONE ANYTHING AT WORK YET. Some of us feel that it’s immoralor unethical or unfair to punish her for what she thinks rather than what she does, and perhaps that a drunken rambling is not necessarily indicative of what her actual behavior is or would be. Particularly since Katina is so surprised by Anne’s remarks. You have no idea what “she does” since you will never know the true motivation behind her actions. Was that Black guy she didn’t hire passed on because he was Black or because he wasn’t qualified, etc.? No sane person puts their livelihood in the hands of someone so reckless. In that situation, you don’t wait for someone to do something illegal at work, particularly when they have verbalized a desire to do so. Do you think a bank manager would keep on someone who expressed a strong hatred for the bank and a desire to steal money from the customers? Of course not. The reality is she expressed a desire to actively engage in illegal behavior that would expose the company to potential liability. In any other situation, that would result in immediate termination. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It’s not just a matter of being forgiving. It’s a matter of being just. Katina has no knowledge of Anne doing anything worth firing, in my opinion. More below. She got drunk in front of her boss, and expressed a desire to engage in illegal activity that would harm the company. Is this really that complicated? You keep trying to paint this as some sort of “thought crime” rather than someone explicitly stating a desire to commit an illegal act that is directly harmful to the business. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/114 "2010-09-21T07:32:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > > She should be promoted (or passed over) strictly based on her job performance. Her drunken ramblings, no matter how repulsive, should not enter into the equation. > > Part of anybody’s job performance is getting along with the boss, and also the boss’s boss. What if Katina is so skeeved out by the racist ramblings that she can’t look at Anne without remembering them? The one who needs to calm down is Katina, in that case. You can say that you picked your example to be behavior generally considered to be revolting, but you know what? If Katina expects Anne to treat people without prejudices, Katina herself should not let her own suddenly-negative impression negate years of knowing Anne to be a valuable employee and one who appears to be perfectly capable to step into Katina’s old job. Or was the reason that Katina didn’t want to promote Anne over Mike a matter of doubting Anne’s capacity, and not one of not wanting to violate seniority? If she doubted Anne’s capacity, she still needs to come up with someone to occupy her own position (and the candidates considered should include Anne); if it was a seniority problem then hiring an outsider over Anne would violate Katina’s own principles. I voted “promote Anne to manager”; since that wouldn’t happen straightaway (Dad is retiring, but that isn’t a matter of leaving on Friday and not coming in on Monday), I would use the intervening time to make sure that my previous impression that she was equitable is fine, but the idea would be to promote her as intended. She should be evaluated based on her job performance, not on off-the-job happenings (so long as these don’t happen to be illegal). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/115 "2010-09-21T14:35:36Z")
She would not be a valuable employee, she would be a liability. Getting rid of liabilities is not “prejudice,” it’s just basic professionalism. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/116 "2010-09-21T15:18:39Z")
> [@dukette71](#): > > > [@handsomeharry](#): > > > > It shouldn’t surprise you one bit that it’s in the South…it’s a hypothetical situation! It can happen on Mars, and it shouldn’t surprise you. > > > > Best wishes, > > hh > > Hypothetical (for the book the OP is writing?)- it reminded me of when I lived there. This shit happens all the time, and it’s from your normal acting neighbor, co-worker, friends parents. They know it is distasteful to some, but they don’t know why, so they just keep it to themselves until they think you are on the level. Of course, no one calls them on it. If I were looking for input on a story, I would have said so. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/117 "2010-09-21T15:21:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > “I hate niggers” is only said if it’s an essential part of your identity. It seems to me a lot of people think it would be some kind admirable, pious show of tolerance and maturity not to shitcan somebody like this, but it wouldn’t be. It would just be unprofessional and irresponsible, not to mention an insult to any black employees. Yes. There are no actual black people in the thread who think this is not worth firing. I am so very glad you are here to speak up for the black folks. I don’t know anything about them myself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/118 "2010-09-21T15:35:08Z")
Somebody has to speak up for them since you sure the hell aren’t doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/119 "2010-09-21T15:54:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Somebody has to speak up for them since you sure the hell aren’t doing it. I love how you veil the threat of terror and check the spread of pride. Your wisdom is dearly bought, I’m sure. Anyway … If this were something that had actually happened to me\*, I would be repulsed by Anne and want her out of my organization. But the fact that I WANT something doesn’t make it RIGHT. I don’t think it’s just for Katina to fire Anne, because she has no knowledge as yet that Anne has done anything worth firing. I won’t even count getting drunk in front of the boss, because Anne was hardly the only person doing that. ’ I DO think Katina has enough information to decide not to promote Anne, and more than enough to talk privately to Anne and make it clear that no racist actions will be permitted in her capacity as a worker there, and that any such action will result in being escorted to the door. \*Which it couldn’t, as I wouldn’t take a drunk female employee home and put her to bed. Why? Because I am not a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289/120 "2010-09-21T16:00:43Z")
She HAS done something worth getting fired. She got drunk at a work-related event, spouted racially harrassing language at her employer (and you don’t have to be black to feel harrassed by that language)and told her she wanted to break the law at work. That will get anybody fired 99% of the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employee-up-for-a-promotion-reveals-disturbing-secret-while-drunk-what-do-you-do/554289.md?page=7)