# Employer flying tattered American flag - how annoyed should I be with this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873 "2019-12-14T23:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/81 "2019-12-19T18:52:39Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I wonder if any other country cares as much about their flag as the USA. For some reason it seems to instill patriotic indulgence amongst Americans. > > I mean, I like Canada’s flag and all, but I don’t give a shit what people do with it. It would be like caring about a map of Canada, for example. Really? To give some background, we Americans are (or at least were when I was a kid in the 1960s and 70s) indoctrinated that the flag is far more than just a piece of cloth - it is an important symbol of liberty and justice that deserves great respect. As a Girl Scout I was taught a great deal of flag etiquette, most of which I still remember. Fun fact for those who escaped such an education: if even a tiny bit of the flag touches the ground, the flag must be burned. (With proper ceremony - those unwashed hippies burning flags in the streets were pinko commies for sure!). I don’t know how Indonesia teaches its young citizens about the flag, but I think there is at least a little bit of the same dynamic in that country. On Independence Day (August 17) it is REQUIRED to fly an Indonesian flag. The additional bunting is optional but highly approved of. (When I say “required” I don’t know if this is just a community standard or an actual law, but I know that every single home and place of business puts flags up for the occasion, without exception.) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/82 "2019-12-20T00:54:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Crazy, I know. Just so long as you know you are. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/83 "2019-12-20T06:07:11Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Fun fact for those who escaped such an education: if even a tiny bit of the flag touches the ground, the flag must be burned. (With proper ceremony - those unwashed hippies burning flags in the streets were pinko commies for sure!). I wonder where this belief started. I had a teacher who indoctrinated us with this when I was in elementary school (in the mid-90s, though she was pretty old). It’s way past what the Flag Code says, and groups like the American Legion endorse the [washing of dirty flags](https://www.legion.org/flag/faq). ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/84 "2019-12-20T10:22:32Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Could be, but as I drive through small town America there are flags everywhere: stores, houses, cars, schools, etc. It’s particularly evident in the New England area. I’m not aware of any other country where the flag is so predominantly displayed. Mexico has flags everywhere too but I’m curious if that’s from the American culture bleed-over. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/85 "2019-12-20T15:10:48Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Mexico has flags everywhere too but I’m curious if that’s from the American culture bleed-over. I recently walked across north England, and in every populated area (okay, just Carlisle and Newcastle) I went through, I saw as many Union Jacks as I do in the US. I did notice that they, in general, were in a much worse state than most American flags I see flying in the States. While the US and Britain have their special relationship and a fair amount of cultural bleed, it’s not like with Mexico where the northern English and Americans visit each other’s countries on a routine basis. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/86 "2019-12-20T16:10:09Z")
There are many many Mexican-Americans in the US, and there are many American retirees who tour MX. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/87 "2019-12-20T17:44:21Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I wonder where this belief started. I had a teacher who indoctrinated us with this when I was in elementary school (in the mid-90s, though she was pretty old). It’s way past what the Flag Code says, and groups like the American Legion endorse the [washing of dirty flags](https://www.legion.org/flag/faq). Fascinating, thank you for sharing. I did think, as I wrote my post, “that’s a really weird rule that doesn’t make sense.” Now I know it’s not just weird, it’s fake. But I was taught that at Girl Scout camp. ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/88 "2019-12-21T07:32:52Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Real Americans don’t refer to “kph” winds. 🙂 Sure they do, if they are pretentious as hell! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/89 "2019-12-21T07:38:34Z")
> [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > By happenstance, as I was walking back to my work area, I saw both the Facilities Manager and the Senior HR Manager having a quick meeting in the hall. I figure between the two of them, they can either replace the flag or tell me who I need to notify to get the process going. I take them over to the window, point out the faded flag and they both agree, it needs to be replaced. FM agrees to take care of it. > > That was three weeks ago and the flag is still there. So did you ask the Facilities Manager for the status? 3 weeks in a large company isn’t a long time for something to get done. First the Facilities Manager would have to find out where to buy a new one, and then process the Requisition. Procurement would have to select a supplier and place the order. They could be backordered and it might take 2 months until this is done or more. Ask the Facilities Manager if you purchase a replacement flag yourself could this expedite its replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/90 "2019-12-21T13:29:06Z")
If I see that a business has a tattered flag I don’t do business there. And at one time I did start shopping at a particular grocery store because, during a sudden rain storm, I saw the manager come tearing out the front door to take the flag down. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/91 "2019-12-21T17:30:54Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Could be, but as I drive through small town America there are flags everywhere: stores, houses, cars, schools, etc. It’s particularly evident in the New England area. I’m not aware of any other country where the flag is so predominantly displayed. I recall traveling in Toronto, Windsor, and London some years ago when my son was small and it seemed that every few minutes he’d pipe up with “CANADA FLAG!” from the back seat. Maybe they’re less common today, I dunno, but I surely remember them being everywhere from my own observation as well. In addition to Canada, Switzerland also gives the US a run for its money in terms of numbers of flags displayed, in my recollection. That was not the case in Austria, Ireland, or the UK, in contrast, and was _certainly_ not the case in then-West Germany, where flags were just about nonexistent. There are also small “flags”–decals and sew-ons and the like. They’re common in the US of course, but again they seemed pretty frequent in Canada and Switzerland. For a time there in the eighties it seemed that every Canadian traveler had a Canadian flag sewn onto their backpack… Flags (and flag stickers, decals, sew-ons, etc.) of a few other nations are actually fairly common in my US city–Jamaica, Mexico, Puerto Rico (I know it’s not an independent country…), Italy. Not sure if the flag-flyers are bringing flag-flying customs with them or adopting the flag-flying customs of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/92 "2019-12-21T18:36:46Z")
I have an American flag decal on the back of my car. It’s actually two crossed flags — the American flag crossed with the Marine Corps flag. The proper way to display flags this way, is that the American flag should be on the left as seen by the viewer, and the staff of the American flag should be in front of the other flag’s staff. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/93 "2019-12-22T05:21:36Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > There are also small “flags”–decals and sew-ons and the like. They’re common in the US of course, but again they seemed pretty frequent in Canada and Switzerland. For a time there in the eighties it seemed that every Canadian traveler had a Canadian flag sewn onto their backpack… Surely this was so that strangers knew that they weren’t Americans. I remember a conversation with a North Korean in Moscow in 1988. After denouncing the U.S., he asked if I were an East German. Since we were drinking his vodka, I said, “Yes.” FWIW, I share this atavistic flag etiquette thing. My political beliefs are pinned far to the left end, but it pisses me off to see a torn flag flying. You’re not doing it right! I can’t understand why it matters, but there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/94 "2019-12-22T08:54:03Z")
> [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > Many thanks for the thoughts expressed. > > I’m kind of with **ASL v2.0** here. I’ve made sure the relevant decision makers have the information. The ball is in their court now. Just how hard to I want to push this? There’s not much I can do to force the issue without being a PITA to some members of Sr management. I’m certainly not going to fund a replacement out of my own pocket. > > Close but not quite. I mentioned this to a friend of mine who just happens to run the local Scout troop. He thought this might make a good field trip and civics lesson for the group. Have them arrive in a group, all in their uniforms and request to see the plant manager. Might be interesting to watch but keep my name the hell out of it. Hell, it might make a good Eagle Scout project. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/95 "2019-12-22T08:56:44Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I mean, if you can get the flag for free… sure. But are the flags actually free, or does someone have to pay for it, in which case we’re right back where we started. > > I know they VFW is struggling for dues-paying members (I mean, I certain my have no intention of joining myself). Are you eligible to join? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/96 "2019-12-22T08:59:43Z")
> [@Alpha\_Twit](#): > > What does that have to do with anything? I’d be deeply offended if the VFW used their limited funds to replace the flag in front of an industrial facility owned but a fortune 100 company. If the VFW can harass them into at least taking down the tattered flag (while keeping my name out of it), great. Shame is free and can even be fun. Replacing the flag costs money and if corporate wants one then they can bloody well cough up the coins for it. But if the VFW does it, they’ll have a lot of leverage to get added to the company’s list of non-profits to whom they donate annually. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/97 "2019-12-22T09:07:26Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > It sure might. But, again, removing the faucet (or the flag) is a whole new ball game that exposes you to a whole new set of responses. It’s property. Don’t take liberties with your employer’s property beyond that which is required or at least allowed by your job. No good will come from making a nuisance of yourself, and nobody likes a busy-body on the self-appointed flag patrol. Especially when the flag goes missing, Boy Scouts show up for a field trip, or a bunch of old guys in VFW hats start railing on bout how their friend has a story about how their great-great-great-great uncle died for that flag at Shiloh. _Don’t go waving your uncle’s corpse at ME, old timer. It so happens that this was that flag at Shiloh!”_ > [@](#): > > I just had an epiphany. Aren’t _all_ manatees albino? You might be thinking of beluga whales… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/98 "2019-12-22T09:13:52Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Handcuff yourself to the flagpole and don’t tell them where the key is until they bring in a new flag! > > Seriously, this is not the sort of thing that would bother me in the least. However, there may be a point with regard to corporate image. The mechanism for raising/lowering the flag at my local post office broke while the flag was at full mast, so the flag ended up flying at night for a couple of weeks until they could get it fixed. After a couple of days, the postmaster put big signs in the windows that said, albeit much more politely than I’m phrasing it, “Yes, damn it, I KNOW the flag is not being taken down at sunset. The mechanism is broken. I’m getting it fixed as fast as I can, okay? Now STFU and stop bothering me.” > > It amazed me to think that people are such busybodies that they’d go out of their way to harass the postmaster about this. Clearly, I’m naive. > > Anyway, my larger point is that evidently people do take this sort of thing seriously, so it probably isn’t a good look for the company. He could always have installed some temporary lighting. 😃 I work in a postal sorting facility that operates 24/7. We have the proper lighting in place. I’m aware that local post offices are less likely to. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/99 "2019-12-22T09:19:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I know what the poster is doing, but it just doesn’t make a lick of sense as the vast majority of comments were helpful in various ways to address the problem and get a new flag up. He probably didn’t notice those; only the few that essentially said flags don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873/100 "2019-12-22T09:21:51Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I wonder if any other country cares as much about their flag as the USA. For some reason it seems to instill patriotic indulgence amongst Americans. > > I mean, I like Canada’s flag and all, but I don’t give a shit what people do with it. It would be like caring about a map of Canada, for example. Really? Canada’s flag IS pretty nice, but Switzerland’s is a BIG plus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-flying-tattered-american-flag-how-annoyed-should-i-be-with-this/844873.md?page=6)