# Employer won't pay travel time. WWYD? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317 "2012-08-22T22:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/81 "2012-08-24T20:54:24Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I reviewed their email again, having reviewed the contents of this thread. > > When I asked about being compensated for travel, I saw this: > \*You can log your hours for your travel time to the site but not on the way home. You can basically log the hours on the way there but not the way back. So you would log 3 hours total for a 6 hour trip. \* > > So, basically, it’s the same as “we are paying you half your wage for time you spend in the van” except that it appears to be a work-around for paying overtime. Do you know if “on the way home” means to your home (ie commute, doesn’t get paid) or back to home base (work site, so should get paid)? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/82 "2012-08-24T21:45:24Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I reviewed their email again, having reviewed the contents of this thread. > > When I asked about being compensated for travel, I saw this: > \*You can log your hours for your travel time to the site but not on the way home. You can basically log the hours on the way there but not the way back. So you would log 3 hours total for a 6 hour trip. \* > > So, basically, it’s the same as “we are paying you half your wage for time you spend in the van” except that it appears to be a work-around for paying overtime. No, it’s not nearly the same. What they are asking you to do is falsify your your time sheets to cover their ass for their illegal employment practices. Listen – You know they’re screwing you. They know they’re screwing you. The question you have to answer is – if you stand up for your rights, can you afford to lose your job with them? Because they will very likely fire you. As far as calling the Labor Department (state or federal), absolutely you should register a complaint if your agency doesn’t make this right. What you should do RIGHT NOW is to call them (or a lawyer) and ask a hypothetical – if you make this complaint and are fired, what compensation can you personally expect to get for this? Yes it’s great for workers of the world to stand up on behalf of all of us, but that doesn’t pay next month’s rent. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/83 "2012-08-24T23:05:28Z")
I’d say that if you fill in your own payroll, you absolutely DO fill in \ until \ as the hours you worked. I can’t even imagine what kind of bucket of worms it would open for them if they just decided to not pay you because they didn’t agree with your hours. And yeah, file complaint/get REAL advice/ yadda yadda. But wow. That’s some balls there on that company. Good targets, from the sound of it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/84 "2012-08-24T23:17:01Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > I see you negotiated to get them to pay half of it. Well, it’s still a sizable chunk, and one you can’t really do anything else with. I would think hard. No, I didn’t negotiate anything. The actual policy, when I got them to clarify, was different from the one that I had overheard on the jobsite. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/85 "2012-08-24T23:28:51Z")
Ok, I _have_ heard of that before, travel time being less than time spent ON the job. But it sucks if you spend more time travelling than working. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/86 "2012-08-25T01:24:23Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > … > I am eligible for benefits at the 90 day point, from the agency, not the client. I have worked for several temp agencies, and eligibility for benefits was always calculated by the hour, not the day, since a given assignment could be anywhere from 2 hours upwards, or 4 hours a day or whatever. You need to clarify this with them, or you’re likely to be in for another unpleasant surprise. This is important if in fact your benefits are based on cumulative work hours rather than work “days”. if you only report half the hours you work instead of reporting all of them (with a lower pay rate for the travel time), you are going to take that much longer to accumulate enough time to earn benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/87 "2012-08-25T04:11:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m assuming the OP wants to keep working for the agency. If he refuses the work based on this they may not ever hire him again. Now he knows that they are willing to work something out, so there’s more reason to compromise and stick with them. > > The OP is always free to file a complaint and request full pay for an a few hours, possibly gaining himself a little money in the end, and losing all the potential pay he could make from the agency. I’m sure if that suits him, that’s what he’ll do. And if they asked him to steal proprietary information from a client he should do that also in order to keep this wonderful job? > [@](#): > > Oh, and in case you were wondering, I was never a staffing agency employee. But I was an employment agency owner. That’s why I can look at both sides of the coin, and I do that because that’s what brought the people placed through my company excellent jobs and contracts at high rates and satisfaction in their careers. That’s wonderful. I’m sure that your advice to your employees was not to bend over and spread them - and I also assume that you didn’t ask your employees to assist you in breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/88 "2012-08-25T04:31:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And if they asked him to steal proprietary information from a client he should do that also in order to keep this wonderful job? > > That’s wonderful. I’m sure that your advice to your employees was not to bend over and spread them - and I also assume that you didn’t ask your employees to assist you in breaking the law. What on earth are you talking about? He is not being asked to commit a crime. He’s being asked to take less pay than he bargained for in exchange for keeping the job. They don’t have to keep him on the job if he doesn’t like the terms. They still owe him full pay for the amount of time he worked under the terms agreed to. But if he insists on collecting that he may not get any more work. But I’m sure you’d quit your job instantly if you were asked to take any pay cut. After all, who cares about paying bills? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/89 "2012-08-25T04:43:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What on earth are you talking about? He is not being asked to commit a crime. He’s being asked to take less pay than he bargained for in exchange for keeping the job. They don’t have to keep him on the job if he doesn’t like the terms. They still owe him full pay for the amount of time he worked under the terms agreed to. But if he insists on collecting that he may not get any more work. > > But I’m sure you’d quit your job instantly if you were asked to take any pay cut. After all, who cares about paying bills? He’s being asked to falsify his own time sheet in order to cover his employer’s ass. They presumably could, if they wanted, tell him to fill in the correct times and specify which of it was at-work travel time, and pay him at a lower rate for that time. Instead, they’re asking him to only report half the at-work travel time he actually does. I can’t say I know exactly why this is, but I know it’s not a legitimate business practice. And as I noted in my previous posts, there’s a good chance that under-reporting his own hours will ultimately cost him in other ways. Specifically, if he has to work X number of hours before he can receive benefits like accruing vacation time and sick leave but he’s actually putting in 10 or 12 hours a week that’s not being credited to him. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/90 "2012-08-25T04:52:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And if they asked him to steal proprietary information from a client he should do that also in order to keep this wonderful job? > > That’s wonderful. I’m sure that your advice to your employees was not to bend over and spread them - and I also assume that you didn’t ask your employees to assist you in breaking the law. Well I have to apologize to you. \*\*Boyo Jim’s \*\*post above alerted me to something I missed. He should not falsify his work log. I would not recommend that in any way. He can accept half pay for the driving time if he chooses, and every hour should count towards his 90 days. The agency is likely trying to find some way to cover their own mistake in contracting with the client, and the OP has to consider finding a way to be cooperative to keep his job. Falsifying his time sheets is not the way to do that though. I would simply suggest that the OP try to find a way to work this out with the agency if he wants to keep his job. **Boyo Jim** , thanks for pointing that out. I could have sounded like a bigger buffoon if I kept up this line of argument without that information. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/91 "2012-08-25T04:58:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > …I could have sounded like a bigger buffoon if I kept up this line of argument without that information. I’m sure you’ll have another chance. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/92 "2012-08-25T05:10:54Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m sure you’ll have another chance. 😛 Yeah, well when opportunity knocks… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/93 "2012-08-25T06:05:11Z")
One other potential serious negative consequence of not correctly reporting all your hours – overtime. If you don’t report all your work time, you may end up losing quite a bit of money. You say sometimes you spend 6 hours traveling to and from the work site in the company vehicle? How many hours do they expect you to work when you get there? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/94 "2012-08-25T07:51:49Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#): > > I don’t think they’re making up arbitrary crap. > It looks like the client made up arbitrary crap 3 years ago, then employed some 1099 contractors on that basis. > Now, the client called up the staffing agency for help, and the staffing agency sent people out. > On the third day, somebody told the staffing agency about the client’s policies, and the agency tried to communicate with us about it. > So, the client made up arbitrary crap and the agency is running with it. > The agency got ambushed with the policy, as far as I can tell, and they went along with it. > I have a sneaking suspicion the agency’s high-level management and lawyers are unaware of this whole development. It sounds to me like the client and the agency were unclear about the terms under which the agency was providing your time. I am sure this kind of thing has happened to the agency before and they’re sticking you with part or all the difference the client is now willing to pay. I’ve had the better part of 20 years of experience both as onsite tech and as someone that outsourced tech jobs to subcontractors. There are all sorts of arrangements on travel. Some bill travel at their hourly rate. Some half. Some have a separate hourly travel rate. But none of that should be your issue. The agency is the one trying to get you to cut the rate at which you bill them for your time. The travel issue is baloney. However, your agency is essentially your sales rep and it generally pays to work with them. ALWAYS report your time and how it was spent accurately. If they choose to pay you at a reduced rate that is something you can negotiate with them in the future. But think about this - if they get to bill you at half your normal rate for drive time, odds are the client would jump at that because you’d be dirt cheap to service their distant clients. The agency likes it, the client likes it, but not so good for you. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/95 "2012-08-25T09:56:39Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > It sounds to me like the client and the agency were unclear about the terms under which the agency was providing your time. I am sure this kind of thing has happened to the agency before and they’re sticking you with part or all the difference the client is now willing to pay. > > I’ve had the better part of 20 years of experience both as onsite tech and as someone that outsourced tech jobs to subcontractors. There are all sorts of arrangements on travel. Some bill travel at their hourly rate. Some half. Some have a separate hourly travel rate. If, per the representations made in this thread, federal law requires full payment for all hours worked, travel time included, how can arrangements different from that be made without violating federal law? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/96 "2012-08-25T13:36:36Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > You say sometimes you spend 6 hours traveling to and from the work site in the company vehicle? How many hours do they expect you to work when you get there? On the day in question, IIRC, we put in 3 or 4 hours of actual work. Don’t have my copious notes in front of me… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/97 "2012-08-25T23:07:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I would immediately stop working for that company. I would not go back to work until they agreed to pay for the time I am traveling in their vehicle. I also would make sure that they had insurance converge on the vehicle, so that I was covered in case of an accident. If they claimed I was in breach of contract, I would tell them to go fuck themselves. > [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > If it helps any here are the Department of Labor’s assistance resources on complying with travel time requirements under the Fair Labor Standards Act: [http://www.dol.gov/compliance/topics/wages-other-travel.htm](http://www.dol.gov/compliance/topics/wages-other-travel.htm) > > Travel That is All in a Day’s Work: Time spent by an employee in travel as part of their principal activity, such as travel from job site to job site during the workday, is work time and must be counted as hours worked. > > I would tell the staffing agency I won’t work for any companies that don’t comply with FLSA regulations. +1 on both. And if you have already submitted time spent travelling and they refuse to pay you for it, take them to small claims court. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/98 "2012-08-26T06:30:57Z")
> [@astro](#): > > If, per the representations made in this thread, federal law requires full payment for all hours worked, travel time included, how can arrangements different from that be made without violating federal law? The client doesn’t care what the agency pays the worker. And the agency will probably pay eventually if you push it and then never work with you again. “Violations” happen all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/99 "2012-08-26T12:24:13Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I’d think a little harder about what I was walking away from, future employment wise, over a few hours wages. Especially in these times. And this is exactly why those companies get away with this bullshit. They know damn well people are desperate and will exploit them without reservation. Whether I took the job or not, I would be reporting that shit to the FSLA. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317/100 "2012-08-26T13:12:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Oh, and in case you were wondering, I was never a staffing agency employee. But I was an employment agency owner. So you behaved evilly and even failed at THAT, huh? Sorry, man, that must hurt. ROFL [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/employer-wont-pay-travel-time-wwyd/632317.md?page=6)