# EMT Suspended For Stopping Ambo to Help Choking Girl **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 30, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141 "2015-10-30T01:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/1 "2015-10-30T01:15:59Z")
A little RO here, though I think the EMT will be just fine. Twenty five year old Qwasie Reid works (worked) for a private ambulance service when he was flagged down by a frantic school teacher and school safety employee in Brooklyn NY looking to help a choking 7 year old girl. From the article in [Statter911 (a Fire & EMS Website run by a friend)](http://www.statter911.com/2015/10/29/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambulance-to-help-choking-girl-at-a-brooklyn-school/) > [@](#): > > Reid told the station (NY 1) he believed a choking girl took priority over the transport, and, against his partner’s urging, administered aid to the 7-year-old, who he said had already turned blue. No one at the school was assisting the girl, he said. > > Reid told local TV station WABC that he cleared out the girl’s mouth, put an oxygen mask on her, used a defibrillator and started CPR. > > “She was blue in the face and lips. No response. Unconscious unresponsive,” Reid told the station. He told local news website [dnainfo.com](http://dnainfo.com) that that the fire department arrived three to four minutes after he began CPR. So the gist is because he left his stable 80 year old patient to try to help the girl, he’s likely fired. I suspect he won’t have trouble finding new and hopefully better employment. The big problem may be he rode with the FDNY to the hospital with the victim, leaving the 80 yr old (who was going from the nursing home to an eye clinic) with his partner. Anyway, interesting story. Curious to see how it ends. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/2 "2015-10-30T01:22:29Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > Anyway, interesting story. Curious to see how it ends. So am I. I see no particular reason he shouldn’t have been fired. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/3 "2015-10-30T01:27:30Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > So am I. I see no particular reason he shouldn’t have been fired. Really? Would you like to explain this? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/4 "2015-10-30T01:34:55Z")
> [@2gigch1](#): > > So the gist is because he left his stable 80 year old patient to try to help the girl, he’s likely fired. I suspect he won’t have trouble finding new and hopefully better employment. The big problem may be he rode with the FDNY to the hospital with the victim, leaving the 80 yr old (who was going from the nursing home to an eye clinic) with his partner. I don’t think it was the EMT’s partner, another EMT. [This article says](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/family-girl-brain-dead-choking-blames-school-article-1.2413322) he left “his patient with his partner, a nursing home aide who had been in the back of the ambulance with him”. A nursing home aide is not a licensed medical professional, nor can they be legally responsible for medical transport of the level that requires an ambulance, even with a stable patient. The EMT, although I know he meant no harm, abandoned his patient, and his employer’s client. You just don’t do that and expect to keep your job. If I’m reading the ambiguous pronoun right, he may even have abandoned his company’s ambulance to a person who is not an employee of the ambulance company (if “his partner” refers to the patient’s aide, not the EMT’s coworker.) I would probably have done the same thing, mind you, at least the first aid part. But I’d expect to be fired for it. I don’t think I would have got on the FDNY rig unless my fingers were literally pinching off an artery or something and I couldn’t let go. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/5 "2015-10-30T01:40:27Z")
> [@kayT](#): > > Really? Would you like to explain this? Yeah. He had a job already. He was in an ambulance with a purpose. He chose to divert that purpose for an emergency that was already being responded to. Also, his version of what happened is only backed up by what he told two TV stations. My view is subject to change given further evidence, but at this point I see no reason to believe that his actions were necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/6 "2015-10-30T01:42:42Z")
Maybe I’m not remembering right, but I think I recall either Dan Dennett or Steven Pinkler arguing that the strict following of rules does in fact lead to a less just society; and this would be a perfect example of it. It would be interesting to hear what the patient in the ambulance has to say about the situation; the person clearly wasn’t in any type of emergency, being transported from an eye clinic back to a nursing home. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/7 "2015-10-30T01:50:30Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yeah. He had a job already. He was in an ambulance with a purpose. He chose to divert that purpose for an emergency that was already being responded to. > > Also, his version of what happened is only backed up by what he told two TV stations. > My view is subject to change given further evidence, but at this point I see no reason to believe that his actions were necessary. It’s a heck of way to get fired then?! If the girl was blue and non-responsive, then his actions were absolutely necessary up to point where FDNY showed up and took over. From that point, I would only be speculating. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/8 "2015-10-30T03:18:15Z")
**WhyNot** pretty much nailed it. Given he already had a patient & was on a ‘call’ he probably shouldn’t have stopped in the first place, though I’m not going to give him _a lot_ of grief for that. If you’re working a code, it’s much easier having a third person (driver + 2 in the back) so that everything that needs to be done can be - chest compressions, bagging (“breathing”) for the patient, starting an IV, pushing appropriate drugs, hospital notifications, etc. FDNY was probably happy to have him for the trip to the hospital but they probably saw a ambulance out front & saw him in uniform working the patient; I’m sure they never asked him, “Hey buddy, you have a patient in your rig?” In going to the hospital with FDNY, he abandoned his patient, & his equipment. Especially in NYC, where so many people _don’t_ drive, it’s quite possible the aide doesn’t drive, which means they can’t be in the front of the ambulance; this means the other EMT is driving & there is no one capable of treating the patient in the back of the ambulance _if_ things went South. Also, in using his company’s equipment, it’s possible that he was not able to take the next call after dropping off the current transport patient as he’d need to restock. Instead of going from call A directly to call B, he might have to go back to his company HQ to replace the used equipment (which can’t be billed to a patient). In NY traffic, this could easily be an hour or more, which would be greater than the time of the entire next call that he’s now _not_ going on. Not only might he lose his job over this, he might lose his career if the regulatory agency decides he abandoned his patient. **Disclaimer:** I’ve done EMS for many years, though not in NY. I don’t know NY state specific laws/regulations, but where I’m from he abandoned his patient & would be subject to disciplinary action by the Dept of Health. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/9 "2015-10-30T03:27:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > He chose to divert that purpose for an emergency that was already being responded to. > …at this point I see no reason to believe that his actions were necessary. The FD didn’t get there until minutes later. That difference easily could have been the margin between life and death. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/10 "2015-10-30T03:29:53Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > **WhyNot** pretty much nailed it. > > Given he already had a patient & was on a ‘call’ he probably shouldn’t have stopped in the first place, though I’m not going to give him _a lot_ of grief for that. His call was a non-emergency transport from an eye clinic back to a nursing home. I do think he was wrong to leave with the NYFD. Once they took over, his part was done. I do wonder why not a single person at the school had first aid/CPR/AED training. Where I coach, every employee of the school district is required to complete that training. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/11 "2015-10-30T03:30:26Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The FD didn’t get there until minutes later. That difference easily could have been the margin between life and death. Sadly, it wasn’t. The girl is brain dead anyway. ☹ (Not the topic of the thread, but WTF is wrong with that school?!) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/12 "2015-10-30T03:36:14Z")
I think the circumstances justified breaking the rules. His actions did not harm the company he worked for, and I don’t think any employment contract whether, written, oral, or at-will could have conscionable terms that prevented an employee from saving someone’s life. If he does get fired I hope the ambulance company gets driven out of business. I certainly don’t want to put my life into the hand of a company that can only measure human life in dollars and cents. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/13 "2015-10-30T03:50:58Z")
I like how people are using ‘abandoned’ for the 80-yr-old as if he was left in the desert to wander and die for the coyotes to gnaw his bones, instead of sitting quietly in an ambulance waiting for a little girl’s life to be saved. [QUOTE=Ale] Maybe I’m not remembering right, but I think I recall either Dan Dennett or Steven Pinkler arguing that the strict following of rules does in fact lead to a less just society; and this would be a perfect example of it. [/QUOTE] Tight tolerances seize up the gears. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/14 "2015-10-30T03:59:10Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I like how people are using ‘abandoned’ for the 80-yr-old as if he was left in the desert to wander and die for the coyotes to gnaw his bones, instead of sitting quietly in an ambulance waiting for a little girl’s life to be saved. We’re using “patient abandonment,” because that’s what that particular form of medical malpractice is called. [http://www.jems.com/articles/2007/09/patient-abandonment-what-it-an-0.html](http://www.jems.com/articles/2007/09/patient-abandonment-what-it-an-0.html) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/15 "2015-10-30T05:11:38Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Sadly, it wasn’t. The girl is brain dead anyway. ☹ > > (Not the topic of the thread, but WTF is wrong with that school?!) Had he not helped her, and then later found out she’d become brain-dead, he would forever have blamed himself. At least now, his conscience will be clear. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/16 "2015-10-30T06:22:28Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > **Disclaimer:** I’ve done EMS for many years, though not in NY. I don’t know NY state specific laws/regulations, but where I’m from he abandoned his patient & would be subject to disciplinary action by the Dept of Health. I believe once certified as a EMT in NY he is legally obligated to render aid, not sure how this would apply since he has a patient. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/17 "2015-10-30T09:15:30Z")
I know it’s OT, at least as far as this guy’s employment, but how can a school not have anyone around who can help? I am assuming this could vary a lot by location , but I’m pretty sure anyone who works in my local schools in any position is CPR trained. They even have workers whose only job is to watch kids at lunch. I also am not getting the discrepancy in the story/comments about whether this kid was “already being helped” or not. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/18 "2015-10-30T12:10:42Z")
I worked for a school district in an office where very rarely did we see any students. District policy required that at least one person in every office be trained on CPR and first aid. I cannot imagine a school where teachers would stand around watching a child in distress and not be willing to render aid even if they had never been trained (which would also be hard to believe). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/19 "2015-10-30T14:01:40Z")
Why was an ambulance being used for routine transportation in the first place? And, why was it a fire department responding to the medical-emergency call, instead of an ambulance? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141/20 "2015-10-30T14:06:59Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Why was an ambulance being used for routine transportation in the first place? And, why was it a fire department responding to the medical-emergency call, instead of an ambulance? Nursing home to eye clinic and back. Most firefighters are also EMTs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/emt-suspended-for-stopping-ambo-to-help-choking-girl/736141.md?page=2)