# End game in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133 "2015-09-13T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/361 "2015-10-09T12:15:49Z")
_honk honk_ I see the US is finally giving up that $500 million project to build (again, again) a rebel opposition. Fwiw, I saw a BBC report about this a month ago when all the rebels could muster was two fat guys jogging around a field. Literally. You’d think it was a parody. Anyway, that particular scam has ended and US tax payers can sleep a little better. Well not really because part of the scam was to divert the weapons supplied: From a month ago: > [@](#): > > A US scheme to train Syrian rebels to fight Islamic State (IS) militants has been branded a total failure after a US general admitted only four or five were still fighting. > > Congress approved $500m (£323m) to train and equip around 5,000 rebels as a key plank of US strategy against IS. > > But the first 54 graduates were routed by an al-Qaeda affiliate, Gen Lloyd Austin told lawmakers. > > Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte said the number remaining was a “joke”. > > “We have to acknowledge this is a total failure. I wish it weren’t so, but that’s the fact,” said another Republican Senator, Jeff Sessions. > **[Syria crisis: 'Only four or five' US-trained Syrian rebels are still fighting](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34278233)** > > A US scheme to train Syrian rebels to combat Islamic State draws strong condemnation after a military official admits "only four or five" are still fighting. /_honk honk_ ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/362 "2015-10-09T12:32:56Z")
Two fat guys 😃 But did you see this - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGa49rM6iM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khGa49rM6iM) Cameron claims we’re nice and clean and only helping the nice, modern, progressive liberal, secular democrats in Syria. b-u-u-ut > [@](#): > > \*\*"Terror trial collapses after fears of deep embarrassment to security services \*\* > > ``` > Swedish national Bherlin Gildo’s lawyers argued British intelligence agencies were supporting the same Syrian opposition groups as he was... > > ``` > > …Karmy-Jones told the court in pre-trial hearings that Gildo had worked with Jabhat al-Nusra, a “proscribed group considered to be al-Qaida in Syria”. He was photographed standing over dead bodies with his finger pointing to the sky." ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/363 "2015-10-09T12:35:27Z")
Yep, two fat guys. This is a copy video of a similar report about those same US trained rebels - it’s pretty informative: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOn3WkpiP-8) ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/364 "2015-10-09T12:37:39Z")
So, given the massive evidence of support for jihadis can we say that the War On Terror is now over ? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/365 "2015-10-09T12:48:29Z")
It probably just means Obama’s clown car has temporarily run out of fuel. _honk honk_ ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/366 "2015-10-09T12:48:41Z")
Did I hear that right - they trained 54 rebels, 5 were killed and 12 captured by al Nusra, and the program was deemed a success ? Was this the same al Nusra people British intelligence were working with in the above mentioned ? [This democratic, secular, feminist, LGBT friendly group of lovely chaps ?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAct-cU1lqE) OK so that’s film of some other bunch… ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/367 "2015-10-09T12:49:44Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > _honk honk_ > > I see the US is finally giving up that $500 million project to build (again, again) a rebel opposition. Fwiw, I saw a BBC report about this a month ago when all the rebels could muster was two fat guys jogging around a field. Literally. You’d think it was a parody. Anyway, that particular scam has ended and US tax payers can sleep a little better. Well not really because part of the scam was to divert the weapons supplied: > > From a month ago: > > [Syria crisis: 'Only four or five' US-trained Syrian rebels are still fighting - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34278233) > > /_honk honk_ Looks like the US Taxpayers have managed to swell the Swiss bank accounts of the “syrian opposition”-whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/368 "2015-10-09T13:03:25Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Was this the same al Nusra people British intelligence were working with in the above mentioned ? Which “above mentioned” are you referring to that says that the UK was supporting al Nusra? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/369 "2015-10-09T13:07:17Z")
[OK I’ll chop this because I don’t know what your forum policy is on videos and it was severe footage] ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/370 "2015-10-09T13:08:28Z")
There really was a credible opposition way back but - and this is commonplace with US policy - changes in policy by the US (famine/feast) leave the groups hopelessly exposed and feeling like random puppets: on/off/on/off. The US did this so often with the Kurds and pretty well everywhere else. It completely forgets people and just moves pieces around its wank board. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/371 "2015-10-09T13:23:06Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > There really was a credible opposition way back but - and this is commonplace with US policy - changes in policy by the US (famine/feast) leave the groups hopelessly exposed and feeling like random puppets: on/off/on/off. The US did this so often with the Kurds and pretty well everywhere else. It completely forgets people and just moves pieces around its wank board. There may have been the usual influence agents at work but yeah the Syrians had genuine grievances against Assad. But for a start the west stopped trusting their own governments after Iraq, barely anybody believes that we can make a success of installing a democracy, hardly anyone believes we don’t have ulterior motives, nobody trusts the news either, so we’re presented with another bunch of promises about making the world a better place with no credible precedent. Even now main news sites are going on about Russia bombing Assad’s opposition without saying exactly which part of the opposition - maybe because they know nobody in the west supports the salafists. Truly tragic if you’re just a Syrian who wanted a more progressive life to live. Took them a year to figure out they were going to be training nazis in Ukraine, and only bothered about it because a black senator found out. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/372 "2015-10-09T13:24:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Which “above mentioned” are you referring to that says that the UK was supporting al Nusra? Swedish guy. OK maybe he was a NATO agent. Maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/373 "2015-10-09T13:28:48Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Swedish guy. OK maybe he was a NATO agent. Maybe not. I’m not being snarky, I don’t know what post/cite you’re talking about. There’s 372 posts in the thread – does every exchange between us have to be this difficult? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/374 "2015-10-09T13:37:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not being snarky, I don’t know what post/cite you’re talking about. There’s 372 posts in the thread – does every exchange between us have to be this difficult? > **[Terror trial collapses after fears of deep embarrassment to security services](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/01/trial-swedish-man-accused-terrorism-offences-collapse-bherlin-gildo)** > > Swedish national Bherlin Gildo’s lawyers argued British intelligence agencies were supporting the same Syrian opposition groups as he was ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/375 "2015-10-09T13:47:46Z")
“Even now main news sites are going on about Russia bombing Assad’s opposition without saying exactly which part of the opposition - maybe because they know nobody in the west supports the salafists.” - I mean the people, not the governments or press. generally speaking. So anyway I guess it’s terror attacks on Russia soon ? Chechens etc. ? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/376 "2015-10-09T13:55:27Z")
So that article convinces you that the British intelligence service supports al-Zawarahi’s affiliate in Syria? As in, it is official UK government policy to support Al Qaeda? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/377 "2015-10-09T13:56:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So that article convinces you that the British intelligence service supports al-Zawarahi’s affiliate in Syria? As in, it is official UK government policy to support Al Qaeda? You saved your snark until now ? OK go on, what’s the unconvincing bit ? why have they got it all wrong ? You know perfectly well there’s official and unofficial in this world. You’re not going to drag me round this are you ? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/378 "2015-10-09T13:59:51Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > **Donald Rump** I misunderstood you. No worries. Glad to have cleared it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/379 "2015-10-09T14:03:11Z")
Do you know the difference between snark and disagreement? Is it possible to have a civil debate? The allegation that the British government has an official policy to support the official Al Qaeda affiliate in Syria is an extraordinary claim. I’m quite simply asking you if you believe that the article and the allegations therein constitute the extraordinary evidence that is generally expected to prove an extraordinary claim. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/380 "2015-10-09T14:15:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > There really was a credible opposition way back but - and this is commonplace with US policy - changes in policy by the US (famine/feast) leave the groups hopelessly exposed and feeling like random puppets: on/off/on/off. The US spent the better part of a decade and tens of billions of dollars building up the Iraqi army yet that wasn’t enough to stop the rise of ISIS. Why would things have turned out any better in Syria if we had started arming the “credible opposition” a few years earlier? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=20)