# End game in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133 "2015-09-13T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/441 "2015-10-10T23:10:48Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Russia wants Assad to stay, so they send in troops to support him. Who could have concieved such a brilliant strategem??? Aha, but will all this help Assad take territory, and **keep territory?** ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/442 "2015-10-10T23:23:16Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > I think we’ve already covered this to death , no? The stupid and useless was spending 500 million dollars on arming 4-5 “rebels”, while insisting that “Assad must go”. > The smart and strategic genius was earning 1.5 billion dollars from arming Syrian army, while insisting that “Assad must stay”. > Even a child can understand who’s an idiot here and who’s a strategic genius. > > Now, we just sit back, relax, and watch the US-supported “rebels” getting killed in droves, eventually leaving the West with a choice between ISIS and Assad. The strategic genius who annexed a worthless territory from a smaller neighbor and brought sanctions upon his own country, result being his economy going the toilet. The genius who has scared his neighbors. As it happens the IMF has released a forecast of economic growth for all countries until 2020. Russia’s GDP was 2.1 trillion by 2013. Now it ended 2014 with $1.8 trillion. In 2020, the Russian GDP will be $1.7trillion. In fact it will fall out of the top ten economies of the world. Canada and South Korea will surpass it. Sad really, when Russia’s economy will be smaller in 2020 than it is \*\*now. One heck of a genius Putin is. \*\* As for the “battered wife”:dubious::p:rolleyes::eek::smack: United States", our economy is now the largest at $18 trillion, up from 2013’s $16 trillion. By 2020, our economy will be at $22trillion. So we will have increased our economy by $6 trillion, while the genius will have presided over a decline in economic size. What a genius Vlad really is. Here is the IMF report for ANYONE interested, you can change the years and it shows the size of all nations’ economies. [http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2015/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2020&ey=2020&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C668%2C914%2C672%2C612%2C946%2C614%2C137%2C311%2C962%2C213%2C674%2C911%2C676%2C193%2C548%2C122%2C556%2C912%2C678%2C313%2C181%2C419%2C867%2C513%2C682%2C316%2C684%2C913%2C273%2C124%2C868%2C339%2C921%2C638%2C948%2C514%2C943%2C218%2C686%2C963%2C688%2C616%2C518%2C223%2C728%2C516%2C558%2C918%2C138%2C748%2C196%2C618%2C278%2C624%2C692%2C522%2C694%2C622%2C142%2C156%2C449%2C626%2C564%2C628%2C565%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C135%2C321%2C716%2C243%2C456%2C248%2C722%2C469%2C942%2C253%2C718%2C642%2C724%2C643%2C576%2C939%2C936%2C644%2C961%2C819%2C813%2C172%2C199%2C132%2C733%2C646%2C184%2C648%2C524%2C915%2C361%2C134%2C362%2C652%2C364%2C174%2C732%2C328%2C366%2C258%2C734%2C656%2C144%2C654%2C146%2C336%2C463%2C263%2C528%2C268%2C923%2C532%2C738%2C944%2C578%2C176%2C537%2C534%2C742%2C536%2C866%2C429%2C369%2C433%2C744%2C178%2C186%2C436%2C925%2C136%2C869%2C343%2C746%2C158%2C926%2C439%2C466%2C916%2C112%2C664%2C111%2C826%2C298%2C542%2C927%2C967%2C846%2C443%2C299%2C917%2C582%2C544%2C474%2C941%2C754%2C446%2C698%2C666&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=&pr.x=42&pr.y=10](http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2015/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?sy=2020&ey=2020&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=512%2C668%2C914%2C672%2C612%2C946%2C614%2C137%2C311%2C962%2C213%2C674%2C911%2C676%2C193%2C548%2C122%2C556%2C912%2C678%2C313%2C181%2C419%2C867%2C513%2C682%2C316%2C684%2C913%2C273%2C124%2C868%2C339%2C921%2C638%2C948%2C514%2C943%2C218%2C686%2C963%2C688%2C616%2C518%2C223%2C728%2C516%2C558%2C918%2C138%2C748%2C196%2C618%2C278%2C624%2C692%2C522%2C694%2C622%2C142%2C156%2C449%2C626%2C564%2C628%2C565%2C228%2C283%2C924%2C853%2C233%2C288%2C632%2C293%2C636%2C566%2C634%2C964%2C238%2C182%2C662%2C453%2C960%2C968%2C423%2C922%2C935%2C714%2C128%2C862%2C611%2C135%2C321%2C716%2C243%2C456%2C248%2C722%2C469%2C942%2C253%2C718%2C642%2C724%2C643%2C576%2C939%2C936%2C644%2C961%2C819%2C813%2C172%2C199%2C132%2C733%2C646%2C184%2C648%2C524%2C915%2C361%2C134%2C362%2C652%2C364%2C174%2C732%2C328%2C366%2C258%2C734%2C656%2C144%2C654%2C146%2C336%2C463%2C263%2C528%2C268%2C923%2C532%2C738%2C944%2C578%2C176%2C537%2C534%2C742%2C536%2C866%2C429%2C369%2C433%2C744%2C178%2C186%2C436%2C925%2C136%2C869%2C343%2C746%2C158%2C926%2C439%2C466%2C916%2C112%2C664%2C111%2C826%2C298%2C542%2C927%2C967%2C846%2C443%2C299%2C917%2C582%2C544%2C474%2C941%2C754%2C446%2C698%2C666&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=&pr.x=42&pr.y=10) For some reason the link is weird and not working, but you can Google it if you like and go on their website. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/443 "2015-10-10T23:26:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yeah, the “strategic genius” presides over a shitty economy and is considered as a violent autocrat around the world; while the “idiot” presides over a much stronger and improving economy and is popular and respected around the world. > > Putin superfans are weird. They live in a parallel universe. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/444 "2015-10-10T23:30:57Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > I think we’ve already covered this to death , no? The stupid and useless was spending 500 million dollars on arming 4-5 “rebels”, while insisting that “Assad must go”. > The smart and strategic genius was earning 1.5 billion dollars from arming Syrian army, while insisting that “Assad must stay”. > Even a child can understand who’s an idiot here and who’s a strategic genius. > > Now, we just sit back, relax, and watch the US-supported “rebels” getting killed in droves, eventually leaving the West with a choice between ISIS and Assad. Can I ask why Russia is such a bad liar? In Ukraine when we realized that they have troops in the east, after months of denial, and now looking at them bombing rebels while claiming to bomb ISIS, when evidence shows it’s lying? > **[Russia says it’s bombing ISIS in Syria. This map shows it’s lying.](https://www.vox.com/2015/10/7/9471271/russia-syria-bombing-map)** > > Vox is a general interest news site for the 21st century. Its mission: to help everyone understand our complicated world, so that we can all help shape it. In text, video and audio, our reporters explain politics, policy, world affairs, technology,... Why does Russia not have the gravitas, the balls to say upfront that it’s bombing all opposition against Assad and that is wants to ISIS to remain so that only Assad and ISIS are the choices? We know this is the goal of Assad, Russia and Iran. Why can’t a brilliant, tough, macho genius like Putin not be brave enough to say this? Because we are not stupid, we will find out. Now ISIS is taking over Aleppo, **thanks to Russian bombing.** We know their plans. Come on out Russians and say it. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/445 "2015-10-10T23:31:59Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > It is important for President Putin to keep striking fast and furious at US influence in Middle East, and diminish it even further than it’s been done in the last few years. President Obama has only slightly more than a year left as President, and the maximum use of this time must be made. President Putin worked long and hard on accustoming President Obama to defeats and humiliation, and now is the perfect time to reap the benefits of that work. Their recent meeting at UN summit was picture perfect illustration: President Putin informed President Obama that US-backed “rebels” will start getting bombed into smithereens, and all that President Obama could eventually master in response was a later announcement that the US will stop spending any more money on training rebels (a surprisingly good idea from the current US Administration, seeing as the “rebels” are being bombed into the Stone Age by Russian Air Force). > It’s like beating your new wife for the first time–you don’t start by kicking her in the head with your knee: she might strike back or call the police! You start slowly, with a push, a shove, a slap across the face and then you gradually escalate the violence. Once she gets used to it, a knee to the head will hardly even elicit any reaction from her. > It’s the same story here: we reached a point where a knee to the head gets only “sorry, I deserved it, I apologize for arming those pesky rebels that you just killed and I’ll stop doing that” from President Obama. In the next 15 months, President Putin must work on delivering things that’ll make a knee to the head look positively benign. The wife is ready to endure it. > Now, come 2018, the chances are excellent the things will get even better for Russia. In case Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump are elected the next US President, President Putin will hardly miss a beat. Hillary Clinton was easily handled back when she was the US State Secretary, and an agreement surely can be reached with Donald Trump. Only a few right-wing republicans that are still in the US Presidential race could interfere here, but as I understand, their chances of getting elected are slim to none. You hold much promise in comedy, you should try it. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/446 "2015-10-10T23:35:13Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Excellent analysis: Obama was in over his head from the beginning. As with most unqualified presidents, he believed the BS that the CIA fed him-which is why we blew $500 million-with 5 trained “rebels” to show for it. Vlad has shown himself to be a master of realpolitik-and Obama to be the fake he always was. No, his mistake was he thought he could have the rebels act as his puppets. And Obama is not a fake, and **Alkash’s** analysis is not “excellent” at all. Again we have to see how all this plays out with Russia and Iran’s dramatic push to help Assad. Will it succeed or not? Seems an Iranian general has been killed in Syria:D, will Iranian and Russians get stuck in the Syrian tar pit? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/447 "2015-10-10T23:54:29Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > The reason why the program failed is because Obama acted out of self interest without taking into account the rebels’ interests either. This I can agree with, it is only the kurds in the north who are facing the DAESH who have the interests well aligned with what the americans want. > [@](#): > > the rebels have been bombed for more than four years, what has that got Assad in all this time? Probably it has gotten him not to lose power, as he probably would have otherwise. So that is a positive for him. The fact his ground forces are poor does not make the airpower useless. The russians are going to bring the better aircraft and pilots to the war, so this will probably help the clan Assed. It is not only a matter of taking territory, it is now for the clan Assed a matter of stopping losing territory and for giving a moral rally to those supporting him, and the greater role of the takfiri in the opposition to him will naturally drive those who have reason to fear the takfiri into his arms. for assed and for the russians, a stabilisation of territory is a non-loss and in a way a win. Of course this does not show great genius, it is essentially desperation from bad choices leading to this. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/448 "2015-10-11T02:44:42Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > Iran and Russia are historically and even till recently not allies at all. Iran and Russia under normal circumstances are not allies at all. China is not allies with Iran either, just an energy importer and investor in Iran. > As for the Eusasian Economic Union, it is a sham plain and simple. The members are all dictatorships and quasi democracies. None of that really matters - the past or the type of governments they have, they’re allies now. As the EU shows, you can start with trading blocs and move to integrate politically and militarily. Iran is allied militarily and economically, China is allied economically, trade doesn’t happen between enemies. Obviously you won’t get the same sort of union between Orthodox Russia and Shia Iran as you will between Belgium and France - before start off on that track. China may not have sent their military to Syria, can you say there is definitely no intel and cyber cooperation with Russia ? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/449 "2015-10-11T14:19:47Z")
The proverbial [knee to the wife’s head](CIA-backed rebels in Syria, who had begun to put serious pressure on President Bashar Assad’s forces, are now under Russian bombardment with little prospect of rescue by their American patrons, U.S. officials say.). The poor woman must be all dizzy and confused. _"CIA-backed rebels in Syria, who had begun to put serious pressure on President Bashar Assad’s forces, are now under Russian bombardment with little prospect of rescue by their American patrons, U.S. officials say. Over the past week, Russia has directed parts of its air campaign against U.S.-funded groups and other moderate_ opposition in a concerted effort to weaken them, the officials say. The Obama administration has few options to defend those it had secretly armed and trained." Could anyone take a guess at what the wife’s reaction was, when President Putin told her during UN meeting that US-backed “rebels” are going to start dying in droves, and there’s nothing the wife could do to stop it? Did she start screaming? Bed Vladimir for mercy? Ask him to stop the relentless beatings? My guess, she’s said nothing–because, at this point, she’s well used to humiliation and beatings. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/450 "2015-10-11T14:38:16Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > they’re allies now. That is very far from clear… > [@](#): > > Iran is allied militarily and economically, maybe, at least in the case of the Syria situation > [@](#): > > China is allied economically, trade doesn’t happen between enemies. Ah therefore the USA and the China are great Allies!! this “analysis” is ridiculous, the real life of trade is not like a strategy video game. > [@](#): > > China may not have sent their military to Syria, can you say there is definitely no intel and cyber cooperation with Russia ? I am sure no one can say “definately” what the Russians and the Chinese may do, but since the Chinese have no historical strategic interests and no serious historical economic ties with the Syria, it is very unlikely that they have any great interest or any great contacts of utility in the Syrian conflict. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/451 "2015-10-11T14:59:50Z")
“For example, China has a definite interest in making sure the Syria conflict does not spill over to affect the broader Middle East — an interest shared among all the major players in the Geneva II conference. Violence from Syria, which is largely based along the Sunni-Shi’ite schism, has already spilled over [into Lebanon and Iraq](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/01/jordan-syria-conflict-fears-destabilise-region). Further escalation could begin to disrupt trade within the region as a whole, a potential disaster for China given that over half of its oil imports come from the Middle East. On an even broader scale, China would like to prevent external political interference in the Syria conflict. China quickly came to regret its decision not to veto a UN Security Council resolution allowing for the establishment of “no-fly zone” over Libya. To Beijing, the ensuing Western-led campaign turned into an overt (but UN-sanctioned) attempt at regime change — something China would never have allowed. China will not make the same mistake again, and thus will prevent any UN action in Syria beyond providing humanitarian aid and fostering dialogue. To this end, China has joined with Russia [to veto Western-backed UN resolutions](http://thediplomat.com/2012/02/chinas-troubling-syria-veto/) that would have placed sanctions on the al-Assad regime. The need to avoid “external imposition of political solutions” is underscored in China’s five-point peace proposal and indeed may be China’s main interest in the conflict at this point.” Allied and interested. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/452 "2015-10-11T15:10:09Z")
> [@](#): > > China is allied economically, trade doesn’t happen between enemies. Ah therefore the USA and the China are great Allies!! No, it just means they’re not enemies. Where did you buy your logic books, Disneyland ? ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/453 "2015-10-11T15:13:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yeah, the “strategic genius” presides over a shitty economy and is considered as a violent autocrat around the world; while the “idiot” presides over a much stronger and improving economy and is popular and respected around the world. Wow, wow, wow, hold your horses there, young bucko. Before we jump into discussing other things, are we clear who’s a strategic genius, when it comes to events in Syria, and who’s a bumbling idiot? Hint: a strategic genius is a politician who achieves his goals, earns money in the process, and prevents his opponent from achieving his goals. A bumbling idiot is a politician who doesn’t achieve his goals, wastes money in the process, and is unable to prevent his opponent from achieving his goals. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/454 "2015-10-11T15:57:56Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > … > Hint: a strategic genius is a politician who achieves his goals, earns money in the process, and prevents his opponent from achieving his goals. > A bumbling idiot is a politician who doesn’t achieve his goals, wastes money in the process, and is unable to prevent his opponent from achieving his goals. Ah so we can see then Putin is the bumbling idiot! > [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Ah therefore the USA and the China are great Allies!! > > No, it just means they’re not enemies. Where did you buy your logic books, Disneyland ? They are not enemies, interesting that the americans are sending their navy to challenge the chinese directly over certain islands and so many american strategic writers write my phrase was to highlight that your assertion is simply false - enemies have and do engage in trade - and to be honest your assessements read like those taken from a video game world. > [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > "For example, China has a definite interest in making sure the Syria conflict does not spill over to affect the broader Middle East … > > Allied and interested. China is interested and always has been in opposing the idea of international interventions in domestic conflicts, for its own reasons (the Tibet, The Taiwan, etc). allied is an assertion that does not looked supported, but given the way you use the word, perhaps you mean simply not opposing… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/455 "2015-10-11T17:08:47Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Wow, wow, wow, hold your horses there, young bucko. Before we jump into discussing other things, are we clear who’s a strategic genius, when it comes to events in Syria, and who’s a bumbling idiot? > Hint: a strategic genius is a politician who achieves his goals, earns money in the process, and prevents his opponent from achieving his goals. > A bumbling idiot is a politician who doesn’t achieve his goals, wastes money in the process, and is unable to prevent his opponent from achieving his goals. The goal is, or should be, stay out of Syria. By that measure, Obama is not as genius as I’d like, but he’s a lot more so than Putin. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/456 "2015-10-11T17:09:28Z")
That quote was from [China at Geneva II: Beijing’s Interest in Syria – The Diplomat](http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/china-at-geneva-ii-beijings-interest-in-syria/) They’re on the SC, they don’t want ISIS dicking with their oil supply, they vote with Russia, they’re a Russian ally. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/457 "2015-10-11T17:15:47Z")
China and the USA are not enemies in any real sense. taking up a military posture is standard between potential rivals. No war has been declared, they haven’t threatened each other, there’s no CIA sponsored guerilla war. You’ll know they are enemies when the TVs and computers stop being sent over the Pacific. [http://www.theglobalist.com/china-and-america-we-are-not-enemies/](http://www.theglobalist.com/china-and-america-we-are-not-enemies/) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/458 "2015-10-11T17:44:47Z")
there is no analysis to be had around these ad hoc definitions so no point further. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/459 "2015-10-11T17:50:02Z")
I don’t need to get a Harvard Phd to know that China and the USA aren’t real enemies, this will do perfectly well. > **[In a first, Chinese hackers are arrested at the behest of the U.S. government](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-a-first-chinese-hackers-are-arrested-at-the-behest-of-the-us-government/2015/10/09/0a7b0e46-6778-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html)** > > The arrests were carried out before President Xi Jinping’s U.S. visit and may have occurred to avoid sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/460 "2015-10-11T19:40:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The goal is, or should be, stay out of Syria. For the umpteenth time–that’s not the goal of President Obama. President Obama’s goal is removal of President Assad and spending at least 500 million dollars of achievement on that goal. Both of these goals have been completely demolished now by President Putin. Do you understand that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=24)