# End game in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133 "2015-09-13T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/461 "2015-10-11T19:45:46Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > For the umpteenth time–that’s not the goal of President Obama. Not his stated goal, no. Whether on purpose or not, though, he’s getting a lot closer to staying out then Putin. So wise by design though he’s saying something else, or wise on accident. Either way, wiser than Putin. > [@](#): > > President Obama’s goal is removal of President Assad and spending at least 500 million dollars of achievement on that goal. 500 million is pretty much nothing, so I’m thankful that we’ve wasted so little compared to past adventures in the region. Not as wise as I’d like, but a lot wiser than Putin. > [@](#): > > Both of these goals have been completely demolished now by President Putin. > Do you understand that? I understand that Putin’s actions are unwise, and Obama’s are wiser, if not as wise as I’d like. Stay out – I wish we’d stay out even more so, but what we’re doing is far wiser than what Putin’s doing. Thanks, Obama. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/462 "2015-10-11T19:50:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not his stated goal, no. Is [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/assad-must-go-obama-says/2011/08/18/gIQAelheOJ_story.html) not a direct quote from President Obama, where he states that “The time has come for President Assad to step aside”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/463 "2015-10-11T19:51:32Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Is [this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/assad-must-go-obama-says/2011/08/18/gIQAelheOJ_story.html) not a direct quote from President Obama, where he states that “The time has come for President Assad to step aside”? Yep, politics can be pretty silly. Thankfully, Obama is not wasting more than a paltry amount of money, and no American lives, to achieve this, so I think it’s much more about optics and politics. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/464 "2015-10-11T19:53:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yep, politics can be pretty silly. Thankfully, Obama is not wasting more than a paltry amount of money, and no American lives, to achieve this, so I think it’s much more about optics and politics. You’re not answering the question. The quote I provided, was it a statement from President Obama that President Assad must step aside? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/465 "2015-10-11T20:01:58Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Both of these goals have been completely demolished now by President Putin. Like how the future of Afghanistan was secured once Russian troops rolled in to save the revolution? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit, even you can’t really believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/466 "2015-10-11T20:04:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Like how the future of Afghanistan was secured once Russian troops rolled in to save the revolution? > > Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit, even you can’t really believe that. Wow,wow, wow, hold on there, young bucko… Once again, before we launch into completely different discussion, let’s first ascertain whether the removal of President Assad was a stated goal of President Obama. \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*claims that it was not. Do you concur with **iiandyiiii**? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/467 "2015-10-11T20:36:59Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Wow,wow, wow, hold on there, young bucko… > Once again, before we launch into completely different discussion, let’s first ascertain whether the removal of President Assad was a stated goal of President Obama. \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*claims that it was not. > Do you concur with **iiandyiiii**? When did I claim it was not? Do you usually invent the arguments of those you oppose, or is this an anomaly? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/468 "2015-10-11T20:38:33Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > You’re not answering the question. > The quote I provided, was it a statement from President Obama that President Assad must step aside? I’m sure it was, I just don’t think that really matters. I judge him much more by what he does than what he says – and what he’s done is waste a paltry amount, spend no American lives, and mostly stay out of Syria. That’s far wiser than Putin, no matter what he’s actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/469 "2015-10-11T21:08:06Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > Wow,wow, wow, hold on there, young bucko… > Once again, before we launch into completely different discussion, let’s first ascertain whether the removal of President Assad was a stated goal of President Obama. \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*claims that it was not. > Do you concur with **iiandyiiii**? You have no problem changing the topic whenever someone criticizes Russia. I don’t need to talk about whatever way you want to deflect what a brute and disaster Putin is. The fact is that Putin is a lot like George Bush: he likes to throw his military around a lot and show he’s a tough guy by scoring seven goals against a team that’s not allowed to touch him/clearing brush from his ranch/whatever, but in the end his senseless policies result in a lot of senseless deaths with no justification. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/470 "2015-10-11T22:12:22Z")
Is there a difference between Obama saying “Assad must go” and “the U.S must be the ones to make Assad go?” I’ve been saying for years now that he should go but don’t necessarily feel it’s the responsibility of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/471 "2015-10-11T23:29:54Z")
> [@Laggard](#): > > Is there a difference between Obama saying “Assad must go” and “the U.S must be the ones to make Assad go?” > > I’ve been saying for years now that he should go but don’t necessarily feel it’s the responsibility of the United States. Yes there is a difference, you can perfectly want him to go yet not want the U.S to get involved. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/472 "2015-10-11T23:37:20Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > None of that really matters - the past or the type of governments they have, they’re allies now. > As the EU shows, you can start with trading blocs and move to integrate politically and militarily. Iran is allied militarily and economically, > China is allied economically, trade doesn’t happen between enemies. Obviously you won’t get the same sort of union between Orthodox Russia and Shia Iran as you will between Belgium and France - before start off on that track. > China may not have sent their military to Syria, can you say there is definitely no intel and cyber cooperation with Russia ? Is Iran part of ANY trading bloc with Russia at all? I know Russia is not calling for Iran’s inclusion into the EEU, which is for former Soviet Republics. And how come Iran is not yet a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which is led by Russia and China, and includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan? India and Pakistan have been approved for membership and will join. > **[India and Pakistan Are Set to Join the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. So...](https://thediplomat.com/2015/07/india-and-pakistan-are-set-to-join-the-shanghai-cooperation-organization-so-what/)** > > India and Pakistan will join the SCO, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the SCO will start to matter more in Asia. [http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/07/11/china-russia-india-pak-sco-idINKCN0PK20520150711](http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/07/11/china-russia-india-pak-sco-idINKCN0PK20520150711) > **[What are the implications of India's and Pakistan's accession to the SCO?](https://www.rbth.com/international/2015/07/14/what_are_the_implications_of_indias_and_pakistans_accession_to__47727.html)** > > Russia Direct interviewed top Russian and foreign experts to figure out the implications of the recent Shanghai Cooperation Organization summit for... Yet **NOT** Iran? Why is Russia not pushing for it? I also disagree that religion prevents nations for becoming allies, the Central Asian states are Muslim and close to Russia, and Pakistan which also Muslim has joined the Russia-China led SCO. So I don’t think this is what prevents Russia and Iran from becoming allies. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/473 "2015-10-12T01:38:14Z")
Obama wanted Assad to go, but there was no viable successor. Obama yielded to political pressure to get involved knowing that it was fruitless. Now Russia will support Assad and the US will back out. Isis in Syria is now Russia’s problem. The Syrian population is so depleted that Russia will have to send in ground troops. It will be an expensive operation for Putin. Probably not another Afghanistan, but close. Obama is wise to keep us out of Syria. The only end game is occupation by 200K or maybe 500K American troops. And, it would be another invasion without any reason. If Russia is willing, let them fight the battle. Crane ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/474 "2015-10-12T03:34:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You have no problem changing the topic whenever someone criticizes Russia. I don’t need to talk about whatever way you want to deflect what a brute and disaster Putin is. > > The fact is that Putin is a lot like George Bush: he likes to throw his military around a lot and show he’s a tough guy by scoring seven goals against a team that’s not allowed to touch him/clearing brush from his ranch/whatever, but in the end his senseless policies result in a lot of senseless deaths with no justification. He does judo and wrestles crocodiles with his dick. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/475 "2015-10-12T12:32:20Z")
In historical terms, what is more humiliating: JFK and the Bay of Pigs or Obama and Syria? Both events are strongly paralleling each other: we have 2 US Presidents supporting “rebel” groups in order to achieve US strategic goals, and overthrow the government of the 2 respective countries, followed by subsequent abandonment by the US of the said rebel groups and their destruction by the US enemies, and the very public and personal humiliation for both Presidents. It does appear that in the latter case there’s a curious denial of reality (“Well, it was never Obama’s stated intention to remove Assad, except that he stated exactly that”), but putting aside this peculiarity, which event was more humiliating? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/476 "2015-10-12T12:59:00Z")
The Bay of Pigs by a country mile. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/477 "2015-10-12T14:01:50Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > In historical terms, what is more humiliating: JFK and the Bay of Pigs or Obama and Syria? Which is more morally outrageous: Putin murdering political opponents, or Putin denying that Russian soldiers are dying in a war that they were ordered to go fight? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/478 "2015-10-12T15:23:09Z")
> [@Alkash](#): > > I think we’ve already covered this to death , no? The stupid and useless was spending 500 million dollars on arming 4-5 “rebels”, while insisting that “Assad must go”. > The smart and strategic genius was earning 1.5 billion dollars from arming Syrian army, while insisting that “Assad must stay”. > Even a child can understand who’s an idiot here and who’s a strategic genius. > > Now, we just sit back, relax, and watch the US-supported “rebels” getting killed in droves, eventually leaving the West with a choice between ISIS and Assad. And to add to that: ISIS is sporting lotsa shiny new American weapons…all paid for by the US taxpayer. This is the “Bay of Pigs” times 100! the sad thing is: American citizens will be murdered all over the world-thanks to Obama’s kind donations of cash and weapons to them. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/479 "2015-10-12T16:01:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You have no problem changing the topic whenever someone criticizes Russia. I don’t need to talk about whatever way you want to deflect what a brute and disaster Putin is. > > The fact is that Putin is a lot like George Bush: he likes to throw his military around a lot and show he’s a tough guy by scoring seven goals against a team that’s not allowed to touch him/clearing brush from his ranch/whatever, but in the end his senseless policies result in a lot of senseless deaths with no justification. Putin has rational goals. Bush had Gog and Magog. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/480 "2015-10-12T16:04:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Which is more morally outrageous: Putin murdering political opponents, or Putin denying that Russian soldiers are dying in a war that they were ordered to go fight? Ukraine ? Of course he puts secret troops into the field, everyone does that. I don’t know what’s sillier, the thought that he wouldn’t or the mock outrage that he does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=25)