# End game in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133 "2015-09-13T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/562 "2015-11-01T04:45:37Z")
Or, just a way for Obama to run out the clock to make it his successor’s problem. It’s just that now running out the clock takes more of a commitment than he bargained for. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/563 "2015-11-01T05:09:28Z")
Or maybe the _advisers_ are going to get advice on how to fight without resorting to buying off your enemy with pallet loads of fresh $bills. I’m sure after all the duplicitous puppeteering stretching over decades, what Kurdish fighters need right now is just a little more patroning from the White House. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/564 "2015-11-01T06:42:48Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > That mission is being sold as an adviser mission. That’s advisers for several battalions worth of Kurdish fighters along with the right radios and trained observers to talk to NATO air assets in the coalition. That’s not insignificant. Call it around a Brigade that is about to see an improvement in capabilities. So, you think this is going to be the factor that results in the destruction if Da-esh? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/565 "2015-11-01T09:37:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, you think this is going to be the factor that results in the destruction if Da-esh? Why does it matter whether it’s _the_ factor? It probably isn’t. It is certainly a positive factor in the weakening and eventual defeat of ISIS. You should view it as one of many factors that will help propel ISIS toward defeat. More important than these advisors would be (1) either getting a significant force of Arab partners fighting as effectively as the Kurds or getting a more significant military involved, and (2) getting all neighboring countries to effectively stem the flow of supplies to ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/566 "2015-11-01T10:47:48Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > More important than these advisors would be (1) either getting a significant force of Arab partners fighting as effectively as the Kurds or getting a more significant military involved, and (2) getting all neighboring countries to effectively stem the flow of supplies to ISIS. This is happening in your head, right? Like in the video games. _paging “Arab partners”_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/567 "2015-11-01T18:03:43Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > He’s said the mission is to defeat ISIS all along. He even included ground troops used in this way in his request for a new AUMF. His thinking about the objective and even possible methods isn’t new. They tried other methods. If the methods aren’t working you look for methods that do. This isn’t even all that big of a ratchet up if you consider all the hints about what’s been happening in the media. They are just putting the fiction of not being exposed to hostile fire to bed. Are you thinking of the [16 times Obama said there would be no boots on the ground in Syria](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2015/10/30/16-times-obama-said-there-would-no-boots-ground-syria/74869884/)? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/568 "2015-11-01T19:34:27Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > This is happening in your head, right? Like in the video games. > > _paging “Arab partners”_ Our first attempt at training an Arab force in Syria did not work. Our government revised their strategy. We’ll see if it works. I don’t think it is particularly clever to point at something that is still developing and say “See! it doesn’t work!”. My level of optimism has declined a bit because the AKP just won back their majority in the Turkish parliament. Since they are basically sympathizers with ISIS, my guess is our chances of seeing victory has declined a bit or been prolonged further into the future. On the other hand, joint Arab/Kurdish/American forces are going on the offense in Syria and the recapture of Ramadi is going forward. Forces cooperating with us have lost no territory to ISIS while having taken their territory. If that pattern continues, Eastern Syria and Ramadi will be freed of ISIS in the coming months. But don’t let my analysis stop you. Feel free to continue ascribing a video game mentality to my beliefs about the situation in Iraq and Syria. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/569 "2015-11-01T20:37:28Z")
Aren’t you supposed to ask the incumbent government before placing troops in it’s territory ? Like, international law and stuff ? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/570 "2015-11-02T01:39:07Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Aren’t you supposed to ask the incumbent government before placing troops in it’s territory ? Like, international law and stuff ? LOL. Brilliant comment. I suppose the logic of gunboat diplomacy is, if you’re willing to bomb the fuck out of somewhere, you might as well invade the territorial integrity as well: in for a penny, in for a pound. It’s at times like this we’re reminded of the pointlessness of the UN, and the bogus bullshit sometimes referred to as ‘international law’, or exceptionalism law, or somethng … ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/571 "2015-11-02T01:47:23Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > LOL. Brilliant comment. I suppose the logic of gunboat diplomacy is, if you’re willing to bomb the fuck out of somewhere, you might as well invade the territorial integrity as well: in for a penny, in for a pound. > > It’s at times like this we’re reminded of the pointlessness of the UN, and the bogus bullshit sometimes referred to as ‘international law’, or exceptionalism law, or somethng … And so > [@](#): > > Chairman of the Russian Upper House committee for foreign affairs, Konstantin Kosachev\*… Commenting on the potential involvement of US ground troops against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, Kosachev once again highlighted that, \*\*when it comes to Syria, the US-led anti-ISIS campaign is already violating international law. Potential troops on the ground, \*_Kosachev believes, will further violate international regulations_ > _“Any operations – air based operations, ground based operations – in Syria by American forces will be illegal,”Kosachev told RT, explaining that Washington has not been invited by Damascus to take part in military operation in a sovereign country._ ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/572 "2015-11-02T02:08:30Z")
Even the use of domestic law looks rather odd. > **[White House: We're Sending Troops To Syria For Who Knows How Long](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/obama-us-troops-syria_n_5633b6d0e4b00aa54a4e1270)** > > Nothing to see here. > [@](#): > > Congress [still hasn’t authorized](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/02/congress-war-authorization-isis_n_7498636.html)the war itself. Obama is relying on a sweeping 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force as his legal justification for taking military action against the Islamic State. The Constitution requires Congress to declare wars, but lawmakers, reluctant to have their fingerprints on a war that could go awry, have shown little interest in passing a new AUMF for the Islamic State. (Typically, they would pass one that puts parameters on the duration, costs and scope of the military campaign.) That leaves Obama – and future presidents – with the ability to make major military decisions about the Islamic State without congressional sign-off. Very broad scope > [@](#): > > **Section 2 – Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces** > (a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the [terrorist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist) attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/573 "2015-11-02T07:03:25Z")
That’s just great news; another US invasion of territorial sovereignty in the Middle East - what could possibly go wrong. But gee, won’t those Kurds be so grateful to draw on the wisdom and success of the US in ground fighting over that’a ways. It’s not like it’s an incentive or anything to the opposition; doesn’t touch on core ISIS rationale, won’t remotely work as a recruitment sergeant, absolutely not a red rag to a bull. But it’ll sure work for the Democratic Party in the elction campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/574 "2015-11-02T10:46:40Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > But gee, won’t those Kurds be so grateful to draw on the wisdom and success of the US in ground fighting over that’a ways. I am not a fan of the americans sending their troops into the region, or this action. But to be reasonable and not political, it is possible the american forces will have utility in training the Kurdish in coordination for calling on the airstrikes. This would not be something the Kurdish fighters are skilled in. of course it is also to mention that the Syrian Kurdish, unlike the Iraqi Kurdish do not have several decades of the fighting organization experience. Just being a Kurdish does not give one genetic abilities… but I prefer the americans and the russians both keep out. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/575 "2015-11-02T13:35:53Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s just great news; another US invasion of territorial sovereignty in the Middle East - what could possibly go wrong. > > But gee, won’t those Kurds be so grateful to draw on the wisdom and success of the US in ground fighting over that’a ways. > > It’s not like it’s an incentive or anything to the opposition; doesn’t touch on core ISIS rationale, won’t remotely work as a recruitment sergeant, absolutely not a red rag to a bull. > > But it’ll sure work for the Democratic Party in the elction campaign. **We get it** , the US is terrible at everything that it does, and you would like an echo chamber to reinforce that. > [@](#): > > **Inbred Mm domesticus** > On the other hand, joint Arab/Kurdish/American forces are going on the offense in Syria and the recapture of Ramadi is going forward. Forces cooperating with us have lost no territory to ISIS while having taken their territory. If that pattern continues, Eastern Syria and Ramadi will be freed of ISIS in the coming months. I agree, I don’t quite understand how people can be impatient and expect instant results of US bombing campaigns, whilst ignoring the fact that ground forces need to be built up to able to sustain an offensive capability, this somehow translates into US failure. I also believe that the Kurdish region in Syria could act as an incubator for Arab groups genuinely working towards a democratic government. We’re seeing an embryonic example of this, with Arabs and Kurdish groups cooperating in building up a force to retake Raqqa and some Arab groups supporting the YPG in Kobani and Hasakanah. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/576 "2015-11-02T14:29:37Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I also believe that the Kurdish region in Syria could act as an incubator for Arab groups genuinely working towards a democratic government. In the time of the apricots… ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/577 "2015-11-02T16:15:53Z")
Are the Kurds getting attacked by the US backed rebels ? > [@](#): > > The US-backed Syrian rebel faction called the Democratic Forces of Syria, a group which was announced last month, and appears to be overwhelming the Kurdish YPG > > The Democratic Forces[issued a statement today](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/31/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN0SP0EA20151031) saying that they were launching a new offensive against ISIS in the Hasakeh Province, the site where the YPG’s primary territorial possessions are, saying the battle has “already begun” against ISIS territory around the province. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/578 "2015-11-02T16:34:47Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Are the Kurds getting attacked by the US backed rebels ? The Democratic Forces of Syria is a joint force of Arab militia, YPG, and American advisers and air support. > [@](#): > > [your article:](http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/31/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN0SP0EA20151031) It was the first declared operation by the Democratic Forces of Syria, which joins together a U.S.-backed Kurdish militia and several Syrian Arab rebel groups, since it announced its formation earlier this month. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/579 "2015-11-02T16:46:55Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > In the time of the apricots… Filmishmish? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/580 "2015-11-02T16:54:50Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > In the time of the apricots… Oh how poignant, a phrase produced to invoke the wisdom of your ‘knowledge’ and the foolishness of my optimism. Here’s a proverb for you One hand doesn’t clap. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/581 "2015-11-02T16:58:54Z")
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