# End game in Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133 "2015-09-13T19:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/602 "2015-11-03T18:42:26Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > [It looks like the authorization for the use of force against ISIS which was proposed by President Obama earlier in 2015 and then Congress failed to act on it](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-war-against-isis-will-go-undeclared/390618/). By doing so, they have condoned the President’s actions and logic regarding the relationship between al-Qaeda, ISIS, and the preceding AUMFs. In my opinion their argument that ISIS is a change in name only from al-Qaeda is weak. This sort of gray area needs to be worked out, but Congress does not wish to do so and action is necessary. It includes a cancellation of the previous AUMF, right at the bottom, if I’m not mistaken. Why does he need his own if he can rely on the old law ? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/603 "2015-11-03T20:01:58Z")
Imagine if after 9/11 the U.S. put its money where its mouth was and bombed and invaded Saudi Arabia. Would’ve made Iraq look like a tea party, but it’s only logical if America wants to avoid charges of hypocrisy when it comes accusing others of supporting terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/604 "2015-11-03T21:02:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Actually, it’s your argument that doesn’t make any sense. You start with an assumption that the United States is acting erratically, implying that we’re pissing off our friends in the region. In fact, the influence of the United States in the region is probably as great as it has been for the last two or three decades. We’re still the #1 friend of many countries in the region, and that hasn’t really changed at all. > > Then to defend your incorrect assertion, you say that Saudi Arabia has supported ISIL. Setting aside the fact that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia does not have any policy to support ISIL, **XT** correctly points out that this has nothing to do with your accusation of the US being an unreliable partner. Well funding has come from Saudi Arabia. You may want to be careful and preserve the idea of the Saudi government’s clean hands, which is diplomatic, but what are they doing about these famous “private donors”, and what is the influence that official Saudi promotion of wahhabism on the ideological climate of the area ? But you wouldn’t disagree the Saudi Government promotes Wahhabism ? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/605 "2015-11-03T22:55:42Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Well funding has come from Saudi Arabia. You may want to be careful and preserve the idea of the Saudi government’s clean hands, which is diplomatic, but what are they doing about these famous “private donors”, and what is the influence that official Saudi promotion of wahhabism on the ideological climate of the area ? > But you wouldn’t disagree the Saudi Government promotes Wahhabism ? But it’s not official Saudi governmental policy to support ISIS, the bone of contention is their unwillingness to against the donors who are prominent members of Saudi society. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/606 "2015-11-04T00:37:33Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > It includes a cancellation of the previous AUMF, right at the bottom, if I’m not mistaken. Why does he need his own if he can rely on the old law ? Because people would accuse him of being a dictator even if he tried to get specific authority? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/607 "2015-11-04T01:34:40Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Well funding has come from Saudi Arabia. You may want to be careful and preserve the idea of the Saudi government’s clean hands, which is diplomatic, but what are they doing about these famous “private donors”, and what is the influence that official Saudi promotion of wahhabism on the ideological climate of the area ? > But you wouldn’t disagree the Saudi Government promotes Wahhabism ? I’m saying that literally nothing in your post has anything whatsoever to do with the standing of the US in the region, which is the issue being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/608 "2015-11-04T01:44:04Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > It includes a cancellation of the previous AUMF, right at the bottom, if I’m not mistaken. Why does he need his own if he can rely on the old law ? Its the cancellation of _an_ AUMF. There is no mention of the 2001 AUMF against al-Qaeda in the document. There is mention of the 2002 AUMF against Iraq. I imagine that one is very unpopular and I am surprised it is still in effect. Keep your AUMFs straight buddy! ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/609 "2015-11-04T04:25:03Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Its the cancellation of _an_ AUMF. There is no mention of the 2001 AUMF against al-Qaeda in the document. There is mention of the 2002 AUMF against Iraq. I imagine that one is very unpopular and I am surprised it is still in effect. Keep your AUMFs straight buddy! All these AUMFs ! But the legal eagle quoted above said the AUMF Obama has been basing the Syrian action on is the 2001 one - it being all about Al Qaeda, offshoots, supporters etc. Why’s he cancelling the 2002 one ? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/610 "2015-11-04T04:26:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m saying that literally nothing in your post has anything whatsoever to do with the standing of the US in the region, which is the issue being discussed. Even more diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/611 "2015-11-04T04:38:25Z")
So has this one here [https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/aumf\_02112015.pdf](https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/aumf_02112015.pdf) been enacted yet, or is it just a proposal ? Why doesn’t it say anything about all the other groups like al Nusra and etc. ? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/612 "2015-11-04T04:48:57Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > All these AUMFs ! > > But the legal eagle quoted above said the AUMF Obama has been basing the Syrian action on is the 2001 one - it being all about Al Qaeda, offshoots, supporters etc. > > Why’s he cancelling the 2002 one ? The legal eagles certainly are using the 2001 AUMF as the justification for our military action against ISIS. That makes sense since ISIS was once part of al-Qaeda. Why does he want to cancel the 2002 AUMF? I don’t know, perhaps he thinks it isn’t applicable anymore and that it’s dangerous to keep around. Additionally, wanting to supplant the 2002 AUMF with a 2014 AUMF is an attempt to stir debate and clarify our military role in that part of the world. Relying an older AUMF with applicability only based in geography prevents us from doing so and makes it easier for politicians to avoid taking a stand on one side or the other. I imagine the typical politician would prefer knowing the outcome of our military activities in the region prior to adopting their stance. All that is just speculation. Its clear he wants to repeal the 2002 AUMF, use the 2001 AUMF for expanded military operations against al-Qaeda, and have an AUMF with a 3 year sunset for ISIS. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/613 "2015-11-04T04:55:15Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > So has this one here > [https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/aumf\_02112015.pdf](https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/aumf_02112015.pdf) > been enacted yet, or is it just a proposal ? > > Why doesn’t it say anything about all the other groups like al Nusra and etc. ? It never even came up for a vote. Congress didn’t want to vote on it. Your other question doesn’t have an answer, but al-Nusra is part of al-Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/614 "2015-11-04T05:02:52Z")
OK thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/615 "2015-11-04T05:18:20Z")
I was wondering what effect things like this would have on the region ? > **[CurriculumOfIntolerance.pdf](https://freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/CurriculumOfIntolerance.pdf)** > > 485.82 KB ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133/616 "2015-11-05T06:38:32Z")
Is Freedom House a CIA organisation ? Woolsey was chairman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-game-in-syria/731133.md?page=30)